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Documentary explores the ‘Talmudic’ relationship between writer Robert Caro and his famous longtime editor
(New York Jewish Week) — Bob Gottlieb, who as editor-in-chief of Simon & Schuster, Alfred A. Knopf and The New Yorker ushered into print some of the 20th-century’s most accomplished writers — Nora Ephron, Toni Morrison, Salman Rushdie, John Cheever and Ray Bradbury, to name a few — believes editing is a service job, one that should go unnoticed by the reader.
And yet, it is the relationship between editor and writer that his daughter Lizzie Gottlieb, a documentary filmmaker, explores in her latest film, “Turn Every Page: The Adventures of Robert Caro and Robert Gottlieb,” which premiered at the Tribeca Film Festival in 2022 and is now screening at theaters across the country.
Lizzie’s documentary sets out to explore the sometimes tense but ultimately caring relationship between her father, Bob, and one of his longest running authors, Robert Caro, who over the course of 50 years has produced “only” five major books: “The Power Broker,” a classic biography of urban planner Robert Moses, and four volumes of “The Years of Lyndon B. Johnson.”
Jews born and raised in Manhattan, Caro and Gottlieb have worked together since Gottlieb helped cut 350,000 words out of the first draft of “The Power Broker,” bringing it down to a book that ultimately ran 1,338 pages when it was published in 1974.
The thing they squabble over most often? Semicolons, still. Or, maybe, Caro’s overuse of the word “looms.”
The film, seven years in the making, takes on the ways Moses shaped New York City, the mysteries of LBJ’s political power, the sausage-making of bestselling books and the idiosyncrasies of two workaholics. It is also a story of two now elderly men — Caro is 87, Gottlieb is 91 — in what Bob Gottlieb calls an “actuarial” contest to finish Caro’s highly anticipated fifth volume of his Johnson biography.
“My dad and I are very close. We’re in constant contact with each other. If something funny happens, I call my dad. If something sad or confusing happens, I’ll call him. We’re just in each other’s lives all the time, so I didn’t feel that there was a secret I needed to uncover or something unexamined in our relationship,” said director Lizzie Gottlieb, who also teaches documentary filmmaking at the New York Film Academy.
“But the one thing I really knew nothing about in his life was his relationship with Bob Caro,” she said. “Because it was so different from anything else, and it was so kind of private. So really, the whole movie is the process of me understanding something that I didn’t understand before.”
The New York Jewish Week recently caught up with Gottlieb to talk about the making of the film, what it was like growing up in a high-profile family and how Jewishness impacts the work of the two men.
This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
Lizzie Gottlieb is a documentary filmmaker who previously directed “Today’s Man” (2008) and “Romeo Romeo” (2012).
New York Jewish Week: You’ve been working on this movie for seven years. When did you realize you needed to make this movie and how did it get from start to finish?
For a long time, people would say to me, “You should make a film about your father.” I have an incredible father. He’s done a lot of great things. He’s interesting and funny. But I just thought, a film whose message is “look how great my dad is” is not a movie that anybody wants to see.
And then my father was given some award and Bob Caro was presenting the award. Bob Caro gave a speech about working with my dad over what was then 45 years. He talked about how he needs him, and he respects him and how they’re so productive. Then he started talking about their arguments. Somebody in the audience asked what they fought about and he said, “We have very different feelings about the semicolon.” Everybody erupted into laughs and it just hit me like a bolt of lightning. I thought, “This is the movie, this is the story.”
I wanted a story that had forward momentum and had something big at stake. A film about two men in their 60s who had done a lot of great stuff is not that interesting. But a film about two men who are hovering around 90 and are still in it, and engaged in their work, who have a dedication and passion and are in a race against time to finish their life’s work, felt really, really compelling to me.
People say, “Are you sure you should be wasting [Caro’s] time with a movie? He needs to be writing.” My producer Jen Small said we should put on the poster, “No Lyndon Johnson books were harmed in the making of this film.”
Do you think you had a perspective that made you the best person to try and talk about their relationship and document it, or was it challenging to make the leap of them being willing to open up to you?
There was definitely a pursuit of them. I called my father and I was like, “I have the best idea ever. I’m going to make a film about you and Robert Caro.” He said, “No way. Absolutely not. Never. It would not be good for our relationship.”
I just kept pestering and pestering and pestering him. Finally, he said I could call Bob Caro but he would say no and of course Bob Caro did initially say no. Then he said that he’d seen another film of mine and I could come and speak to him. Eventually, Caro said, “I’ve never seen a film about a writer and an editor, and I think this could be meaningful. I don’t think anyone’s ever seen this before.” So he let me start, but he had this kind of hilarious condition, which was that he didn’t want to ever appear in the same room as my father. That seemed funny and a little maddening and sort of endearing. It also seemed like an irresistible challenge to try to make a buddy film where they don’t appear in the same room as each other. A woman came to a screening recently and she said, “It’s a love story, and they don’t get together until the last scene.”
They both say that somehow the making of this movie has brought them closer together and that they have developed a real friendship after 50 years. Maybe just having to articulate what their relationship has meant to each other has made them appreciate it more.
What was it like to grow up in your household, with your father as this major editor and your mother (actress Maria Tucci) on Broadway?
I grew up in a really incredible household. My mother’s an actress, my father’s a publisher and editor. Our house was this kind of vibrant, boisterous household that was always filled with eccentric, incredible people — actors and writers. My dad’s writers would come for dinner and then my mother would go off and do a play on Broadway and then come back at midnight and make another dinner. It was incredible. So I feel that both of their work was kind of integrated into our life and into our family. All of his writers were really like family members, except for Bob Caro, who never came over and who I never met. I think that there’s something particular and peculiar about their relationship that they needed to stay apart and only come together over work. I guess that was something that intrigued me and that’s part of why I wanted to make the movie.
“Turn Every Page: The Adventures of Robert Caro and Robert Gottlieb” (Courtesy Tribeca Film Festival)
The Jewishness in the film is a bit more implicit, though you discuss it when talking about their upbringings. How do you think their Jewish identities have impacted their work?
I don’t want to presume to speak for either of them about their Jewishness. I know they both very strongly identify as New York Jews, which probably means something slightly different to each of them, but I think it’s essential to their definitions of themselves. Their humor may be particularly Jewish as well. David Remnick uses a word at the end of the movie, where he says Caro needs to have “sitzfleisch” in order to finish the book. It’s this Yiddish [and German] word that means the ability to sit for long, long periods of time and apply yourself to something. I think that that is something that these two guys have: It’s almost a Talmudic focus on their craft, and without that they wouldn’t be who they are. So to the extent that that’s a Jewish quality, I think that’s essential to their being, to their achievements. There’s something like a Talmudic scholar in going over all these things, the industriousness and the empathy as well, this sort of looking at a thing from all sides and dedicating yourself to this pursuit.
Bonus question: You briefly show the various eccentric collections your dad has, including plastic handbags and kitschy Israeli record albums from the ’60s and ’70s. What is that about?
Yes, he has a lot of collections. He also has a collection of macramé owls. There are many that are not in the movie. Maybe that’s a Talmudic thing as well, like a deep dive into whatever it is that is interesting to him. He says that every subject gets more interesting the deeper you get into it. When something strikes him as charming or funny or curious, he goes all the way with it. My mother doesn’t love them. There’s a little bit of a power struggle there, but he wins. You grow up with something and you don’t really think about it. But I knew I had to find a way to put this in the movie. People kept saying it’s irrelevant, it’s to the side, but I knew I had to because it’s so weird and says so much about him.
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Lia Koenig describes her life as an actress, from Bucharest to Tel Aviv
צװישן די יאָרן 2018 און 2024 האָט דער ישׂראלדיקער טעאַטער־פֿאָרשער ד״ר יניבֿ שמעון גאָלדבערג פֿונעם בר־אילן אוניװערסיטעט פֿאַרבראַכט לאַנגע שעהען שמועסנדיק מיט דער באַרימטער ייִדישער אַקטריסע ליאַ קעניג. פֿון דעם איז אַרױסגעװאַקסן דאָס בוך די בינע פֿון איר לעבן, װאָס איז פּובליקירט געוואָרן אױף ענגליש דורכן באָסטאָנער פֿאַרלאַג „אַקאַדעמיק סטאָדיז פּרעס“. קעניג, שרײַבט גאָלדבערג אין דער הקדמה, איז אײנע פֿון די לעצטע לעבעדיקע ייִדישע אַקטיאָרן, װאָס האָבן זיך געלערנט זײער קונסט דירעקט אין דער טעאַטער־סבֿיבֿה אין מיזרח־אײראָפּע פֿאַרן חורבן.
דאָס בוך פּרוּװט, װי װײַט עס איז מעגלעך אין דער ענגלישער איבערזעצונג, אָפּצוהיטן דעם נאַטירלעכן טאָן פֿון די שמועסן. גאָלדבערג שטעלט פֿראַגעס און קעניג ענטפֿערט אױף זײ, אָפֿט מאָל מיט לענגערע אָנאַזײַטן, װאָס ציִען נאָך זיך װײַטערדיקע פֿראַגעס.
דער לײטמאָטיװ פֿון קעניגס מאָנאָלאָגן איז די אַנטױשונג, װאָס ייִדיש האָט ניט באַקומען קײן געהעריקע אָפּשאַצונג ניט — דעמאָלט אין אײראָפּע און ניט הײַנט אין ישׂראל. „זײ האָבן ניט קײן דרך־ארץ פֿאַר ייִדישע אַקטיאָרן אין ישׂראל,“ זאָגט זי מיט אַ טאָן פֿון ביטערקייט.
דער שמועס נעמט אַרײַן פֿאַרשײדענע תּקופֿות פֿון קעניגס לעבן. זי איז געבױרן געװאָרן אין לאָדזש אין 1929. אירע עלטערן יוסף קאַמיען (שטײן) און דינה קעניג זײַנען געװען באַרימטע ייִדישע אַקטיאָרן אין פּױלן. לאה איז געװען דרײַ יאָר אַלט װען די עלטערן האָבן זיך צעשיידט און זי איז אַריבער קײן טשערנאָװיץ מיט דער מאַמען, װאָס האָט געשפּילט אינעם דאָרטיקן ייִדישן טעאַטער. דער טאַטע איז פֿאַרבליבן אין לאָדזש און איז אומגעקומען אינעם חורבן.
װען די דײַטשישע חיילות האָבן באַפֿאַלן דעם סאָװעטן־פֿאַרבאַנד אין 1941 זײַנען זײ אַנטלאָפֿן קײן אוזבעקיסטאַן. דאָרט איז די מאַמע שיִער ניט געשטאָרבן פֿון טיפֿוס. דאָס זײַנען געװען די סאַמע שװערסטע יאָרן אין קעניגס לעבן, אָבער אַזױ האָבן זײ זיך געראַטעװעט פֿונעם חורבן.
נאָך דער מלחמה האָבן די מאַמע מיט דער טאָכטער זיך באַזעצט אין בוקאַרעשט, װוּ לאה האָט אָנגעהױבן שפּילן אינעם ייִדישן טעאַטער. אירע אײַנדרוקן פֿון יענע יאָרן אין דער קאָמוניסטישער רומעניע זײַנען געמישטע. זי לױבט דעם ייִדישן טעאַטער װאָס איז געװען גוט אָרגאַניזירט און האָט באַקומען אַ סטאַבילע שטיצע מצד דער רעגירונג. דער בוקאַרעשטער ייִדישער טעאַטער האָט געהאַט אַ פּראָפֿעסיאָנעלע טרופּע און האָט געשמט װי אײנער פֿון די בעסטע טעאַטערס אינעם לאַנד.
אָבער דער קאָמוניסטישער רעזשים האָט ניט דערלױבט קײן פֿרײַהײט ניט אין קונסט און ניט אינעם פּריװאַטן לעבן. דער ייִדישער טעאַטער האָט עקזיסטירט אין אַ מין „געטאָ“ בעת אין דער אַרומיקער געזעלשאַפֿט זײַנען געװען פֿאַרשפּרײט אַנטיסעמיטישע געפֿילן. אינעם יאָר 1961 האָט זײ זיך אײַנגעגעבן עולה צו זײַן קײן מדינת־ישׂראל.
אין ישׂראל איז דער מצבֿ פֿונעם ייִדישן טעאַטער געװען גאָר אַנדערש פֿון רומעניע. אין דער ייִדישער מדינה זײַנען געװען פּריװאַטע טרופּעס, װאָס האָבן אָפֿט געשפּילט „שונד“. די מאַמע האָט שטרענג געהײסן לאהן: „הײב אָן אין העברעיִש און ערשט װען דו׳סט װערן באַקאַנט, קענסטו טאָן װאָס דו װילסט אױף ייִדיש.“
לאה קעניג האָט געשפּילט אױף דער העברעיִשער בינע מיט אַ גרױסן דערפֿאָלג העכער װי פֿופֿציק יאָר. און דאָך זאָגט זי: „איך רעד העברעיִש אָבער מײַן אמת איז אין ייִדיש.“ העברעיִש איז „ניט קײן שפּראַך פֿאַר טעאַטער.“ זי קען ניט שפּילן שלום־עליכם אױף העברעיִש אָדער אױף ענגליש: קײן שום איבערזעצונג „רירט נישט מײַן נשמה“.
ערשט פֿיר יאָר נאָך איר אָנקומען אין ישׂראל האָט זי װידער אָנגעהױבן צו שפּילן אױף ייִדיש, טײלװײַז צוליב פּרנסה. דער פּריװאַטער ייִדישער טעאַטער האָט באַצאָלט בעסער אײדער די מלוכישע „הבימה“. אין די 1960ער און 1970ער יאָרן האָט זי גאַסטראָלירט אין אײראָפּע, דרום־ און צפֿון־אַמעריקע און אין אױסטראַליע. איר מאַן הירשל (צבֿי) שטאָלפּער, דער רעזשיסער פֿון זײער טרופּע, „האָט כּסדר געבױט אַ פּראָגראַם װאָס האָט זיך אָנגעהױבן מיט נאָסטאַלגיע נאָכן נעכטן, און דערנאָך זײַנען מיר אַריבער צו די הײַנטיקע ענינים,“ דערמאָנט זיך קעניג.
די שמועסן קערן זיך װידער און װידער אַ מאָל צו לאהס טאַטע־מאַמע. זײ האָבן געהערט צו דעם דור ייִדישע אַקטיאָרן, װאָס האָבן „אײַנגעפֿלאַנצט די ליבע צום טעאַטער אינעם מיזרח־אײריפּעיִשן עולם“, האָט זי באַטאָנט. אין מדינת־ישׂראַל, להיפּוך, איז די באַציִונג צו ייִדיש אַ ביטולדיקע.
אינעם יאָר 1986 האָט קעניג באַקומען די העכסטע ישׂראלדיקע פּרעמיע „פּרס ישׂראל“ פֿאַר דער הױפּט־ראָלע אין יעקבֿ גאָרדינס דראַמע „מירעלע אפֿרת“. די קלאַסישע ייִדישע דראַמע האָט מען אױפֿגעפֿירט אױף העברעיִש בײַ „הבימה“ אין תּל־אָבֿיבֿ. דאָס איז געװען אַ מאָמענט װען קעניג האָט דערפֿילט אַז זי געהערט טאַקע באמת צו ישׂראל, כאָטש זי האָט ניט קײן מענטאַליטעט פֿון אַ ישׂראלי.
נאָך דעם דאָזיקן דערפֿאָלג האָט „הבימה“ דערלױבט צו שפּילן „מירעלע אפֿרת“ אױף ייִדיש מיט די אײגענע אַקטיאָרן. דאָס איז געװען דאָס אײנציקע מאָל װען דער טעאַטער האָט אַרײַנגענומען אַ ספּעקטאַקל אױף ייִדיש אין איר רעפּערטואַר. אָבער דעם ייִדישן נוסח האָט מען ניט געשפּילט אינעם הױפּט־זאַל, נאָר אױף דער קלענערער בינע „בית־החיל“ („דעם זעלנערס הױז“).
דער גרעסטער טײל פֿון די שמועסן אינעם בוך זײַנען געװידמעט פֿאַרשײדענע טעאַטראַלע עפּיזאָדן און ראָלעס פֿון לאה קעניג אין ישׂראל. עס זײַנען דאָ אַ סך אינטערעסאַנטע עפּיזאָדן, פּערזענלעכע פּרטים און שאַרפֿזיניקע באַמערקונגען. צום סוף פֿונעם בוך געפֿינט מען ניצלעכע צוגאָב־מאַטעריאַלן װעגן לאה קעניגס עלטערן; די רשימה פֿון אירע ראָלעס און אַ היפּשע צאָל פֿאָטאָגראַפֿיעס.
אַלץ איז זײער אַ װערטפֿולער מאַטעריאַל, אָבער צומאָל װערט דער לײענער, בפֿרט אַן ענגליש־רעדנדיקער, פֿאַרפּלאָנטערט אין די פֿילצאָליקע פּרטים װעגן פֿאַרשײדענע אױפֿפֿירונגען אױף דער ישׂראלדיקער בינע. פֿון דעסטוועגן וועט דאָס בוך זײַן ספּעציעל אינטערעסאַנט פֿאַר מומחים פֿונעם ישׂראלדיקן טעאַטער. דער אַלגעמײנער לײענער װעט זיך באַקענען מיט אַ מערקװירדיקער פֿרױ, װאָס האָט געװידמעט איר גאַנץ לעבן דער ייִדישער קונסט און איז טאַקע מצליח געווען, ניט געקוקט אױף די שװערע נסיונות און האַרבע מניעות אױף איר לעבנסגאַנג.
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Bondi gunmen condemned ‘Zionist’ actions prior to attack and threw bombs that failed to detonate, police say
The two gunmen who opened fire on a Hanukkah celebration in Sydney, Australia last week, killing 15, recorded a manifesto video prior to the attack in which they condemned the acts of “Zionists.”
The description of the video, which was included in newly released documents from the Local Court of New South Wales on Monday, comes as one of the attackers, Naveed Akram, 24, currently faces 59 charges, including 15 counts of murder and one count of terror. His father, Sajid Akram, 50, was killed on the scene of the attack.
In the video, which was filmed in October and found on Naveed Akram’s cellphone, the pair sit in front of an Islamic State flag and four long-armed firearms and appear to recite a passage from the Quran. Later, the pair explain their motivation for the attack on Bondi beach, and condemn the acts of “Zionists,” according to the court documents.
“Police allege that the Accused and his father, S. Akram, adhere to a religiously motivated extremist ideology linked to the Islamic State,” the court documents read. “This is demonstrated by their videoed speech and use of Islamic State flags during the attack.”
During the attack, the pair also threw three pipe bombs and a “tennis ball bomb” that failed to detonate, according to the court documents. Another explosive device was also found on the trunk of their car.
The court document also alleges that the father and son had “meticulously planned” the attack for “many months,” detailing that the pair had engaged in: “Making an ISIS inspired video; Making of ISIS flags; Firearms Training; Making of pipe bombs and improvised explosive devices; Booking of accommodation as a staging post; and Transportation of firearms and ammunition for the attack.”
In October, the pair booked a house on Airbnb that was used as a “staging post” for the attacks and were also recorded conducting firearms training in a “countryside location” that police believe was in New South Wales.
On Dec. 12, two days before the attack, the pair were also seen on CCTV footage driving to Bondi beach and walking along the footbridge from where they would later shoot at the Hanukkah event.
Naveed and Sajid Akram allegedly traveled to Bondi Beach on Dec. 12 to plan for the attack on the Hanukkah event days later, according to surveillance video shared by law enforcement. (Local Court of New South Wales)
“Police allege that this is evidence of reconnaissance and planning of a terrorist act,” the court documents said.
On Monday, Naveed Akram was transferred from the hospital where he had been healing from injuries sustained during the attack to the Long Bay Correctional Complex in Malabar, a high-security prison facility.
The parliament of New South Wales was also recalled on Monday to vote on new legislation that would limit gun ownership for non-citizens and reduce the number of firearms a person can legally own to four.
Sajid Akram was an Indian national who had been living in Australia on a resident visa and owned six firearms.
The new legislation would also ban the display of terror symbols and place restrictions on protests, including giving police the power to remove face coverings during protests. The state government has also vowed to ban the popular pro-Palestinian slogan “globalize the intifada.”
“We have got a responsibility to knit together our community that comes from different races and religions and places from all over the world. We can do it in a peaceful way,” New South Wales Premier Chris Minns told reporters outside of Parliament on Monday.
Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese was booed at a vigil on Sunday at Bondi beach for the victims of the attack, underscoring growing pressure on the Australian leader to call a Royal Commission, Australia’s highest level of inquiry, into the terror attack.
Albanese has so far dismissed calls for a Royal Commission, arguing that it would take too long, instead announcing a review of federal intelligence and law enforcement agencies.
“Emotions were raw and a lot of people in the community are hurting and angry, and some of that anger was directed towards me, and I understand that,” said Albanese at a press conference on Monday. “As Prime Minister, I feel the weight of responsibility for an atrocity that happened whilst I’m Prime Minister. And I’m sorry for what the Jewish community and our nation as a whole has experienced.”
This article originally appeared on JTA.org.
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Toronto men, including 1 linked to ISIS, charged with targeting Jewish women for assault
Three Toronto men were arrested by Canadian police on Friday for allegedly attempting kidnappings targeting Jews and women.
Waleed Khan, 26, Osman Azizov, 18, and Fahad Sadaat, 19, of Toronto each face over a dozen charges, including two counts of sexual assault with a weapon and two counts of attempted kidnapping with firearm, according to the Toronto Police Service.
Khan was also separately charged with multiple terrorism offenses, including providing property to fund ISIS and conspiring to commit murder on behalf of a terrorist group, according to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
The arrests stemmed from an investigation into two failed kidnappings allegedly perpetrated by the men several months ago. The attempted kidnappings stemmed in part from “hate-motivated extremism,” according to Toronto police, who said they found evidence in the suspects’ homes that they were “particularly targeting women and members of the Jewish community.”
The arrests were welcomed by Noah Shack, the CEO of Canada’s Center for Israel and Jewish Affairs, who warned that the recent terror attack in Sydney showed that “we are one intelligence failure away from a devastating loss of life.”
“It is alarming that multiple Islamic State-related terrorist plots have been uncovered over the past two years in Canada,” Shack said in a statement posted on X. “This goes far beyond the safety of any one group. It is a matter of national security and public safety. There is a ticking time bomb in our country that our leaders must confront before it’s too late.”
In September 2024, a Pakistani man was arrested in Quebec for plotting to kill “as many Jewish people as possible” in an attack in support of ISIS in New York City. Months earlier in July, a father and son were also arrested in Toronto for allegedly planning an ISIS-inspired attack on the local Jewish community.
This article originally appeared on JTA.org.
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