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Jewish Child and Family Service CEO Al Benarroch talks about stress and resiliency in the Jewish community after October 7
By BERNIE BELLAN On Thursday, August 14, Al Benarroch was the guest speaker at the Remis Luncheon Group, which meets every Thursday between May and September at the Gwen Secter Centre.
I had the privilege of introducing Al.
Al Benarroch was born in 1964, the youngest of four sons born to the late Solomon and Mary Benarroch, originally from Morocco, who came to Winnipeg in the early 1960s. (Al’s brothers are: Rabbis Yossi and Yamin, and Michael.)
Al attended Talmud Torah and Joseph Wolinsky Collegiate, and went on to obtain his B.A. from the University of Winnipeg. He pursued graduate studies at Lakehead University in clinical psychology, followed by a career as a therapist and in social services.
For the past 26 years Al has been working at Winnipeg’s Jewish Child and Family Service (JCFS), including serving as Clinical Director (for 15 years) before moving into his current position as President and Chief Executive Officer (for the past 11 years).
Al also contributes to our community’s religious life as the regular chazan for Yom Tov at the Chevra Mishnayes Synagogue in the North End’s Garden City neighbourhood.
This past May, Al and his brother, Rabbi Yossi Benarroch, were honoured by JNF Canada at this year’s Negev Gala for their service to the community.
Al told the audience of some 40 individuals who were at the Gwen Secter Centre on August 14 that he wanted to talk about how JCFS has helped members of the community deal with the ongoing anxiety many have been feeling since the events of October 7, 2023. The following is a transcript of Al’s remarks – edited somewhat.
“I have dedicated my 36-year career – including the past 26 years working for the JCFS – to helping clients suffering from mental health problems. In Israel today, it is estimated that 70% of Israeli children are suffering from PTSD. You would be hard-pressed to find a family in Israel that isn’t experiencing trauma from the events of the past 18 months of war – and a lifetime of stress from the constant threat of rocket fire and terrorism.
”I want to talk about the impact the last two years have had – not just on Jews – but I didn’t know I was going to be in the company of judges and lawyers – also my Grade 7 math teacher!
“As Bernie mentioned, my family came to Winnipeg from Morocco in the 1960s. Winnipeg’s Jewish population really began to grow in the late 1800s.
“It didn’t matter where you came from – there was a long history of antisemitism. The term ‘wandering Jew’ fits the story that a lot of people here brought with them.
“History has a short memory and history tends to repeat itself. I’m willing to bet that most of you here remember the Kennedy assassination moment – and probably you can remember where you were when you heard about the assassination.
“Then, for a lot of us, we can remember exactly where we were on October 7, 2023 when we heard about the Hamas terror attack. For me, I was in synagogue – on Simchas Torah.
“The world continues to find reasons to hate Jews. Sometimes it’s a little more underground, sometimes it’s right on the surface, but we’re now at a time and a place where we’re hearing it, reading it, watching it – breathing it.
“It isn’t the first time in our history we’ve seen this happen – and it won’t be the last time; yet, we’re still here.
Resiliency
“What I wanted to talk about today then is how we deal with what’s been happening and how we’ve been able to show resiliency.”
Al asked the audience: “What does that mean to you when you hear the word ‘resilient’?”
Someone said: “Bouncing back.;” someone else said, “being able to handle bad news;” a third person said “reframing something.”
Al responded: “Reframing something – somehow taking the negative and either coping with it, being able to bounce back from it, being able to energize from it, somehow help us carry forward.”
“Before I came to work in the Jewish community I spent 11 years as a clinical psychologist in northern Manitoba going back and forth to First Nations reserves. I heard many, many stories of deepest tragedy. Oftentimes I would say to someone: ‘How are you still here – with the tragedy that you have told me?’ The human potential is astounding.
“When I think of the Jewish people, we are living examples of that.”
Again, Al asked the audience: “When you think of Jewish and resiliency, what comes to mind?”
Someone said: “spirituality;” someone else said “family support;” a third said “be careful who you trust.”
Al acknowledged the significance of all three suggestions, and launched into a story about one of his staff who attended a conference held in Israel after October 7 where the subject was post traumatic stress. He displayed a picture that staff person had taken of a wall outside the building where the conference was held. The picture was of this sentence: “Our wounds are centuries old but so is our resilience and our strength.”
“Unfortunately,” Al continued, “we’ve had lots of experience with trauma.
“We’ve always turned back to the kinds of things you’ve spoken about – for the community to be unified, to family, to our historical values, because unfortunately, we’ve had lots of experience with trauma and with displacement. But somehow we’ve come through it and we’re still here. And so, really, in the last couple of years our agency has really tried to focus and distill down what are those things that have kept people positive and going, and how can we somehow bottle that so that we can help support people in the community that have been challenged at this time? Yes, loving kindness; yes, doing good for others – despite what we’re experiencing, can be very, very important and very empowering.
What people have been telling workers at JCFS
“So understanding the impact of antisemitism – I’m going to go through some of the things people have been telling us that they have been feeling. This is not anything specifically out of textbooks. This is about the anecdotal stuff that we have been hearing in our community, from our community members that come from many walks of life, whether they come from Israel, whether they come from Argentina or Russia, or have been Canadians for four or five generations.
“It’s things that we have been hearing and oftentimes it’s probably what people were hearing in Germany post World War II. It is probably what people were hearing in Russia during the times of pogroms – in Poland and in Eastern Europe. And probably what was being heard at the times when the Canaanites and the Edomites and the Amorites were invading the land of Judea and in Israel 3000 years ago in the times of the Kings.
“But when we understand the impact that it has, and when we really take the time to reflect and talk about it openly, we can now have a better communal understanding of what is going on and how we can support each other. Because one thing that happens during stress responses or during traumatic experiences is people tend to withdraw and they think they’re the only ones going through it, and that can be a very lonely and isolating place to be. As Jews, we tend to sometimes do the opposite, and we come outward and come together. We talk about it in our synagogues, we talk about it in lecture groups, we talk about it around the dinner table and with our peers, and that is very different.
“So what does a typical stress response or acute trauma response look like? When we are exposed to something traumatic, and I’m not saying that it necessarily needs to be what happened on October 7th – God forbid – I’m saying, it could be the acute death of a loved one.
The “four Fs: the fight, the flight, the freeze, and the fawn”
“It could be the sudden onset or a diagnosis of an illness. It could be having taken a fall down the stairs or having been in a car accident or something like that. We tend to talk about the ‘four Fs: the fight, the flight, the freeze, and the fawn.’ Now, many of us may have already heard about fight or flight.
“You get into a – you know – the bear is in front of you in the woods, and you think: ‘I have a couple of options here. Am I gonna fight this bear or am I gonna run away from this bear?’ Many of us will freeze – we’re not sure. You think of the deer in the forest -they will freeze and then they’ll run away, right?
“So many different species have different reactions and then recently, in research, this idea of ‘fawning’ – in terms of how we emotionally process and react to the stress. So when we talk about fighting – that’s an interesting one. We might experience things like anger or frustration and just feel like clenching, and we just wanna lash out in some way.
Bernie Bellan note: After his talk was concluded – and after I read the transcript of Al’s remarks I realized that I should have asked him to elaborate upon what he had meant by the term “fawning,” so I emailed him, asking him to go into more detail about what he meant.
Al sent back a very long and considered reply, but for the sake of brevity I will condense it here: “More recently, psychotherapist Pete Walker, coined the term ‘Fawning’ as another unconscious trauma response to danger.
“To expand a bit, fawning is a set of behaviours that may be another response to trauma (and often childhood abuse) that serve one’s sense of safety. It can be characterized by excessive people-pleasing, agreeableness, and submitting in order to avoid conflict or confrontation, and increase a sense of safety. It can often be an alternative response to fighting or fleeing and typically involves prioritizing the needs and desires of the abuser, even at the expense of one’s own needs. By appeasing the threat, the victim might calm the situation and thus be safer in the moment.
“In the case of what we may be experiencing as a community or individually in response to the rise in antisemitism and the fears associated with that (whether someone has been involved in an actual antisemitic experience or not), a person might fall back on fawning in order to increase feelings of safety. What this might look for those experiencing antisemitism is the need to avoid conflict by appeasing the hateful individuals or their beliefs, and even at the expense of denying one’s own needs and beliefs by feeling that they are pleasing those exhibiting prejudice (i.e. the ‘antisemites’). Unfortunately, fawning as an emotional response to antisemitism (or any type of abuse, for that matter) does not address the underlying prejudice and can even serve to further reinforce antisemitic behavior, because it is a passive response that seeks to appease aggressors.”
Al’s talk continued: “We might speak out in the context of what’s going on in the last few years. We might want to activate ourselves by speaking out and talking about it. We might want to engage in some activism. I don’t know if anyone here has attended any of the Wednesday rallies on Kenaston. It’s a large group of people; there have been as many as 300 coming out, holding Israeli flags, holding the pictures of hostages because they have this feeling that by doing that I’m doing something and I’m not just sitting idly by. (Instead of) just sitting at home and dealing with the stress and the anxiety in my own head, I’m actually getting up and doing something. It may be by putting up an Israeli flag in your window – or flying one in your car.
“It may be that when there’s an opportunity to have a conversation with somebody about their opinions of what’s going on, and you can engage in that in some way. For some it might actually be physical confrontations, and we don’t like to do that. We want to avoid that. The flight response often presents itself as fear, anxiety, strain…and in those circumstances, often we will see people disengage.
“They’ll avoid, they’ll withdraw and they will become almost, I wouldn’t say paranoid would be the word, but hyper vigilant. You know, if you reflect (upon things that may have happened) – and we don’t need people to disclose, but you may be walking through a shopping mall and you may see or hear something and you think, ‘oh my goodness,’ and you don’t want to speak out. You don’t want to say anything because you may feel unsafe to do so. Some people may be doing things like hiding their money in the beds, taking down their mezuzahs in their homes – because they don’t want to expose themselves publicly. So their response to the strain and the stress is to withdraw – in order to gain a sense of safety.
“We all like to feel in control of our lives and in control of our destiny, and when these things happen it takes the control away from us and essentially we try to find ways to regain physical and emotional control. For some that might be speaking out – activism; for some that might be withdrawing, saying, I’m going to work on my personal safety and my family’s safety.
“For some it’s freezing; it comes from the sense of feeling numb – or even just feeling exhausted, as the strain continues. We’re starting to hear now from people that ‘I’m just exhausted at watching the news. I’m exhausted at having to constantly defend myself or defend our people or defend what is going on in Israel.’
“And for many, it’s becoming very challenging, and so people will feel stuck. They might – the word they’re using, (and) I’m using here, is ‘disassociate.’ But what they may do is they may try to turn it off. ‘I don’t want to think about it. I’m gonna think about other things.’ And they may shut down. So they don’t want to talk.
“They’re just tired of it already. It’s been going on for a long time. Almost two years is a long time for us to constantly be dealing with the media and the newspapers. And hearing what’s going on all the time. Sometimes you just try to turn it off. But then we also have some reactions that could be…where we overcompensate, and that may come from a place of guilt.
“For some, it might be things like ‘I wish I could do more, but I live in Canada, what can I do? I can’t go to Israel… I can’t join my CJA or my federation…what can I do?’ And people feel very helpless in those situations.
“So what they may end up doing is they may end up overcompensating by trying to seek approval.
“These things are happening to us. [We’re constantly trying to seek approval. So these are the reactions that we may see. It’s not necessarily any one or the other. It could be a combination. It could be a progression over time. And so this is typically what we may see when somebody has experienced a traumatic or a stressful kind of experience.
How the Winnipeg Jewish community has reacted to the events of Oct. 7
“And, as they carry on over time, these things sort of evolve in and out of each other. Is there anything here that doesn’t make sense right now or make sense? So I’d like to talk a little bit now (about) what we as a community have been experiencing since October 7th. Again, our community got hit very, very quickly, like most others.”
“We heard of the news in Israel (on October 7, 2023) and within three days there was a rally happening at the Asper Campus outside. Some 2,500 people showed. It was a very, very empowering thing. We had a group of students here from a high school (in Israel – Danciger High School in Kirtyat Shemona) who happened to be here for their annual exchange program. And – to watch their response to what happened and to see that they were able to engage in positive singing and dancing and rallying was truly, truly remarkable – the way Israelis from Israel were reacting as opposed to the way Western North American Jews were reacting.
“Something happened thousands of miles away. So, some of the things that we did immediately (were to) say we needed to hear from community members (and) that we (JCFS) were going to be available, we were going to have social workers and be available to hear from people. We wanted to get in front of the trauma response, in front of the stress response.
“And, over time we started hearing things like: ‘We’ve been experiencing more hostility in our public Jewish spaces.’ How many of you have been to synagogue lately – and there’s been a police car in front of your car? Right. Folklorama is going on right now, and I’m comforted to see that there have been six or seven or eight police cars at the Israel pavilion, even though there’s nothing expected, thank God to happen. But to know that people are feeling this way and that that kind of a response is required, is something that people are experiencing. They’re feeling it in their schools, whether you’re in a Jewish school, in synagogue, in the workplaces, we have been hearing from public school teachers and students that they have changed the way they are speaking out or talking or publicly displaying their Judaism in some of their workplaces. And, it’s been something that we have tried to help schools address when certain incidents have come up in their schools. (There’s also) social media – something that is brand new in the war on antisemitism.
“The bombardment that people have (on the internet)… it has become almost like an addiction to constantly be checking your social media, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. These are all very valid news sources, but you know, people are getting all sorts of information, real and fabricated, from social media and accepting it as fact, as truthful.
“These social media sites are also created in a certain way that the more you look at something, the more it thinks that’s what you want to look at, and the more it continues to feed you, those sorts of things. There are these, these mathematical algorithms behind the scenes that continue to feed what you want.
“So, imagine if you have been looking at things related to antisemitic incidents in New York or Australia or London or Paris, or Toronto – all of a sudden your news feeds on your Instagram and Facebook are going to constantly be popping up with things related to that. That has a severe impact on people psychologically.
“We’ve been hearing that happen a lot. We’ve been recommending that people take vacations from their social media. Restrict the amount of time you are spending on it. Some people have been spending hours and hours and hours a day. You know, you could watch the news. In the old days, we watched the news at 6:00 PM and 10:00 PM Right? That’s true. That was it. We read the newspaper, now it’s 24/7 available and people have become obsessed with it. (On) the flip side, all of a sudden I’m getting all of these feeds from Al Jazeera and I don’t know where else about all the anti-Israel and antisemitic stuff – through the lenses of the other side.
“The psychological impact (of) social media has been very, very profound and so we’ve been targeting that quite a bit. People (who) have been out in public fear public displays of their identity… People have been very, very concerned about whether they should wear their kippahs outside.
People’s fears manifest themselves in different ways
“Maybe I’ll switch to a hat or a cap. I don’t want (to be) careful of what shirt I’m wearing, what t-shirt am I wearing? For some – it’s the opposite. They’re displaying very proudly.
“I can tell you (though) and I can disclose (that) the Benarroch family is a very traditional religious family. My wife’s fears have been very legitimate on her part. She’s afraid. And so, I wasn’t gonna argue and I said, ‘We’re gonna take down the mezuzah and we’ll put it back up at its right time.’ In her words, it was: ‘You know what – we have 13 other Mezuzahs inside the house. I think we’re okay. So, I say: ‘ Pick your battles.’
“These are the things that people are going through. We have had people telling us that they have been directly receiving threats because they’ve been identified as Jewish. There’s been vandalism to people’s homes (and) in public places. I mentioned the increased security concerns.We’ve just become hyper vigilant. We’re looking over our shoulders a lot more in 2025. Something we didn’t think would’ve happened post Holocaust, you know? These are very, very real things that people have been telling us.
“We’ve been observing these same things. People have been isolating themselves much more socially. This compulsion to check social media all the time – it actually has a new name; it’s called ‘Doom Scrolling,’ where people are scrolling through their phones and constantly seeing these doomsday kinds of things, you know, about what’s happening in other communities and even what’s happening in our own.
“They’ve had very difficult times engaging in conversations with colleagues, with other community members, with friends, with family. We have been hearing situations – you know, like ‘ My sister and I, we don’t talk to each other anymore because she thinks this and I think that.’ It’s been destroying friendships, it’s been tearing families apart.
“This isn’t anything that we had expected. You know, we might assume – my brother, my sister, my best friend – must feel and think the way I do. And when we start to question our thoughts and our information about things, sometimes we don’t know how to speak and we become very emotionally distraught about having these difficult conversations with people we’ve been close to or people that we thought we trusted, or that we thought we knew better than that over the course of our lives. There’s a collective grief that we feel…
“We’ve heard some very interesting things coming out of Holocaust survivors. We have a program for Holocaust survivors going on every second Thursday (at the Gwen Secter Centre), which is why you’re in here (the board room of the Gwen Secter Centre) every second Thursday. We’ve been hearing things like this feels a lot like Germany before World War II. We’ve also heard people saying things like, you know, what could anyone do to us again that the Nazis didn’t already do to us?
“So, what have we been addressing? We’ve been trying to target a fear – the anxiety and that general sense of feeling unsafe that people have been naturally experiencing… a very normal reaction. It’s a normal reaction to an event and to events that have been happening, but it’s in the context of our historical knowledge of what’s happening.
“We’ve been addressing the frustration and the exhaustion that people have had from their overexposure to information, from what they feel are failed efforts to be able to effectively advocate or make a difference. People have been feeling guilty about not being able to change anything going on in the world.
“The emotional toll of this – to consistently try to have to defend one’s Jewish identity, has been something that we have been trying to target. So we’ve been running – over the last few years, a lot of very different programs. We ran a program called ‘tikvah”‘- for ‘hope,’ and we didn’t wanna bring people into some big therapeutic intensive session to talk about their feelings. No, we wanted to bring people into a space which was safe, which was non-threatening.
JCFS program targeted Hebrew-speaking women
“So we invited Hebrew-speaking Jewish women. They were the first ones to come forward and say they wanted help. We ran a program that had about 85 people and we had little blank wooden Hamsas – about the size of my hand, and they could cover them and paint them in tables of eight. And on each table we had topics for discussion.
“At the end of the session, we took them through some meditative experiences for helping to calm them and, and sort of bring them down in terms of their emotional, – what we call their emotional activation. What we were trying to do was teach people skills so that they could find ways to relax themselves and relax their muscles and relax their brains, even though they were being bombarded by ongoing stress and ongoing challenge.
“And that’s kind of what we look at doing. So there’s something in the research and in the literature that we call this dichotomy between trauma and between what we’ve talked about: resilience. So a few of you mentioned it. What is resilience? Resilience is that ability to cope – that ability to empower oneself towards positive things.
Non-positive ways of coping
“In spite of the spite of, and in the face of those challenges, what we have found in the research is that there have been some unhelpful ways, some non-positive ways of coping, and it comes under three categories. We have the kind of people who take on victimhood – ‘Who? Me? I feel powerless.’
‘There’s nothing I can do. I am stuck. I feel overwhelmed.’I think that that’s a role we collectively fell into after the Holocaust. You know, you have to feel sorry for us and be nice to us because we lost 6 million Jews in World War II. Well, that’s not working anymore for the Jewish people, clearly people don’t care what happened to us 75 years ago, or a thousand years ago, or even two years ago. That’s not working. So victimhood is one thing that happens, and it’s not a necessarily a positive way of coping.
“People can take on a persecutor kind of role, which is where they begin to blame and criticize and try to take control over others – right? You did this, you’ve done that. It’s your fault. You have done this to us…also not a very effective way.
“And then there’s the rescuer who looks at solving the problems. ‘We’re going to fix the problems’. And what those people tend to do is they neglect themselves. While they’re trying to help everybody else and they end up crashing and burning emotionally and exhausting themselves, and that’s not a healthy way either. So what has the literature we’ve been looking at say, and how do we flip this around?
“How do we break those cycles that people tend to fall into that have to do with victimhood or these various negative ways of dealing with stress and conflict? And how can we flip it into resilience? How can we take those experiences and despite them, move forward in positive ways? And so, many people will say things – like, ‘This happened to me. I learned from it, and I’m going to take it forward and do something good, something positive.’ So, we can shift from a victim to a survivor and what they call a creator role. We acknowledge the challenge. You know what, this is hard. This is difficult. I feel stressed. What can I do with that? I can now turn it around and take action.
“I can get involved in things. I can write articles, letters to the editor. I can take part in committees and… I can pray. I can delve into my community and become more active and involved. And we saw that happening. I think in the months after October 7th, I think synagogue attendance started to go up.
“Think of the number of people who attended rallies. They were being proud about what was going on in terms of the unification of the Jewish community…. how the amount of Jewish unity worldwide increased exponentially, after October 7th. I don’t know who it was in history who said something to the effect of, ‘If you want to destroy the Jewish people, leave them alone.’
“Every time in our history when we’ve had persecution, we’ve risen to the challenge and we’ve come together as a community. And that goes all the way back to the days of Kings in the Bible. We can shift from a persecutor role where we are accusing to a challenger role where we can start challenging people about their opinions.
“So, you’re telling me that Israel did X, Y, and Z. What is your proof? Let’s engage in a conversation about this. That is based on where you’re getting your facts, where I’m getting my facts, and maybe we can speak as two human beings trying to come to a consensus with each other about these very difficult things.
“It could be something about just setting boundaries and knowing who you can speak to about these things and who you can’t, because there are those who are never gonna change their opinion – so we might have more success banging our heads into the wall – right? than having conversations with certain people.
“So, why should we bother with them? Let’s bother talking to those that we may have some ability to make some movement with or educate about things. That’s when we want to encourage people towards growing towards inviting people in so that they can experience the beauty of what a Jewish community is like and all the positive things that we have, though we’re not perfect… Then we can shift from the role of a rescuer where we just want to fix all the problems to what they call a coach, where we wanna support others…towards positive growth and change, and I think that’s what JCFS has done in terms of opening up our counselling services and offering these things to the various members of the community, looking for it, where we can take the knowledge and experience that we have and we can help people in the community grow and understand where they’re coming from and what they’re experiencing, so that they can continue to experience positive joy in their day to day life and not be consumed.
Counselling sessions at JCFS for people experiencing stress or trauma
“Some people have asked what kind of counselling programs we have? We’re offering three to five free sessions for people through our program. We’re calling the program ‘Unity in Community.’ People can come in and they can talk about what’s bothering them.
“About a year and a half ago, one of my therapists knocked on my door and they said, ‘Al, I just had a very interesting request. Somebody wants to come in for counselling because they’re having a lot of emotional torment about what’s been going on. They’re Muslim and they can’t speak out in their own community. What should I do?’
“I said, ‘Do you think that it’s a safe situation? The answer was ‘yes,’ so I said ‘Talk to them.’ That’s what we do as Jews and since then, I think we’ve helped about five or six Muslims come in very confidentially and privately – to be able to talk about what they’re feeling strain and can’t speak about it in their own communities. And they have felt comfort in the Jewish community. So, I look at that and I say, that’s about building bridges. Again, that’s based on a very core Jewish value. And so, we talk about our resilience as Jews – that we have an ability to cope.
“Why are we gathering here today? It’s a group of people coming together in a Jewish place as Jews to talk about maybe Jewish things, maybe not Jewish things. It doesn’t matter. We’re coming together as people to be together, and so we think about Victor Frankel, who was a psychiatrist before World War II, who lived through Auschwitz. He distilled down all of the suffering that he was witnessing and experiencing in Auschwitz, and he tried to understand: ‘Why did some people survive and why some people did not survive?’ and he drilled it down to one very simple thing: Those that found hope and meaning – even in the worst of events, survived. He has this one quote – that we’re no longer able to change the situation, and so we are challenged instead to change ourselves. It’s in an individual’s ability to say: “What can I take from what is happening to me and turn it into something positive and find that positive piece that can be understood?’
“In the Yeshiva world we have a phrase that we say, when something bad happens…this is also for good. Something good is gonna come of this, whether it is our experience or a new relationship. Press forward finding positive meaning, and that’s the nature of the Jewish people.
“One organization in Israel that I’ve had the privilege of meeting several of their staff and of their leadership is called Natal. And Natal is essentially the centralized post-traumatic stress response agency for all of Israel.
“There are smaller ones, but Natal is the overarching one. I’m just going to quickly go through their 10 commands for self preservation. What are some of the things that a person can do during difficult and stressful and painful times to be able to somehow ground themselves and bring themselves back down to a state where they’re feeling calmer and able to function?
Tips for coping with stress
“One thing is awareness. Just being aware of what you’re going through emotionally, and physically. One thing we do know is that when we experience stress, it’s not just in our mind that we’re thinking about these things. It physically affects us in our bodies. Our stomach gets turned into knots, our muscles cramp up. We might wake up feeling aches and pains and it’s not just us getting older. How can I relax it through my breathing, through meditation, through just even paying attention to it and we’re able then to help ourselves to regulate.
“So, regulating our body… we do that. We can practice our breath, we can practice muscle relaxation. We can practice grounding ourselves.
“Journaling and writing things down can be a very powerful way of getting them out from here. And then we take that book and we put it down on the nightstand. Now, all of the things we’re thinking about – they’re in the book. I can put them over there for now.
“Social connections – like this, coming together in meaningful ways. We feel a connection. It can normalize the way we feel… You know, it must be normal because a few of us are feeling that way.
“Self-compassion – people need to be good to themselves. They have to nurture themselves as well, recognizing that we’re human and that these reactions that we’re feeling are normal. It’s said that a post-traumatic stress response is a normal reaction to an abnormal situation, right? So, knowing that if I’m staying up at night. if I’m watching the news too much, if I’m stressed, I’m depressed – it’s normal, given what’s going on. And so we have to give ourselves permission that that’s okay. Identifying what drains us is our mission. Sometimes that could be people, sometimes that could be activities, and we wanna avoid those.
“Getting up, doing a routine, going to certain activities and keeping a certain normalcy and routine to your life helps you feel like might have some control over things. Finding meaning, as we just talked about, do activities that are meaningful. You know, I like to play golf. I don’t get to do it enough, but when I play golf, I’m usually with my friends or my brothers. That is very meaningful.”
At that point, Al said he was willing to take some questions. There were a few questions – mostly about how upsetting it is when some Jews criticize Israel.
I asked a question about Jews who feel guilty for what Israel is doing in Gaza
But, I decided to voice a dissent to the notion that it’s only what’s happened to Israel that is causing many Jews to feel stressed out. I said: ‘I don’t know if any other people in this room will agree with me, but there is a lot of criticism of Israel among Jews. I circulate among a lot of Jewish people who feel totally uncomfortable with the kind of line that you’ve been giving that we have to give support to Israel.’ “
Al responded, saying: “I didn’t say that.”
I continued: “With what’s been going on, there are a lot of Jews who feel very marginalized, feel excluded from the mainstream, especially as expressed by the Jewish Federation. I don’t know if someone is going to approach Jewish Child and Family Service and ask for counselling because they feel so guilty about what’s been going on in Israel towards the Palestinians and Gaza. I just wanted to put that out there. This has kind of been a kind of one-sided delivery on your part, where all you’ve talked about is the stress that people are feeling – worrying about what’s been happening in Israel and antisemitism. Sure, that’s legitimate – but there are a lot of Jews who are stressed out by what the Israeli government has been doing.”
Al answered: “My intent today was not to give a political message. This was about finding comfort in your community, wherever you may stand. We have had people come for counselling who are challenging with exactly what you’re saying. They don’t agree with the policies of Israel. They don’t agree with the politics of what’s going on. They don’t agree with how long this war is going on. They’re getting their news from the same media sources as everybody else, and they’re very troubled by what they’re hearing and seeing. Our job is not to convince people that everybody has to think a certain way.
“Our job is to help people find comfort and to find some stability and to find some sense of homeostasis with those experiences they’re having so that they can function better with their families, so they can function better in their workplaces, so they can find ways that they can continue to feel like they’re making a difference in their own personal lives.
“If I had a solution for solving all those other problems, I don’t think I’d be standing here today. I’d be standing somewhere else having that conversation. But some of your concerns are probably better raised with CIJA, with our Jewish Federation. I’ve been one who’s spoken out very openly in my social circles. I don’t agree with the formal Jewish community’s approach, you know of what in the US is AIPAC or what In Canada is CIJA. I don’t agree with all of it. It’s something that still falls on the heels of victimhood…and trying to criminalize things and punish people. You don’t get people to come to your side by punishing them.
“You know, governments come and go, right? So, I mean, people are having a very hard time being able to differentiate the politics of what’s going on with their love for Zion and Zionism. It’s been challenging people’s Zionism because things are getting so immersed into politics.
“Your average person doesn’t have the intellectual, emotional capacity to, to deal with that on a day to day basis. So these are the kinds of channels we’re seeing all on the hook. Talk to Federation. I’m going to a meeting on September the 15th. They won’t agree with me necessarily, but we can have a very intelligent dialogue.”
Local News
One of Canadian and American television’s greatest producers of all time: Perry Rosemond – a true North End boy, who never forgot his Winnipeg roots
Introduction by BERNIE BELLAN Perry Rosemond was a well- known television producer who grew up in the North End of Winnipeg before moving to Toronto and establishing himself as one of Canadian television’s brightest talents in the 1960s, later to go on to even greater success in the US before returning to Canada in the 1980s.
Rosemond passed away in Toronto on August 20 at the age of 89.
In August 2020, Gerry Posner interviewed Rosemond for the Jewish Radio Hour. I contacted Rochelle Zucker, the longtime producer of that show, to see whether she could send me an audio file of that interview – which she was able to do. Following is a complete transcript of the often hilarious interview Gerry did with Perry Rosemond:
Gerry Posner: Welcome to the Jewish Hour radio show. This is Gerry Posner, and I’m delighted to be back on the radio once again with a guest whom I believe you will find interesting and informative. So today I feel very fortunate to have on the show a real Winnipeg legend, a man who has made his way in the world of the arts, and that is no small achievement. He has been a big name in the field of entertainment as a writer, a director, a producer for many years. I speak of Perry Rosemond. Perry, welcome to the Jewish Hour radio show.
Rosemond: Thank you, Ger.
Posner: I imagine you might have even listened to this show when you were a youngster.
Rosemond: Well, I have to tell you that my grandmother would call us every Sunday when I was about seven years of age, and she would say, “Turn on the French station at 1 o’clock and you’ll hear a very beautiful program.” And that was Noah Whitman’s show. And here I am, a mere 73 years later, on the show. Remarkable.
Posner: Well, I’m glad you made it. Tell me something, Perry. Who were your parents?
Rosemond: My parents were Max and Mona Rosemond, two of the most beautiful-looking people on the face of the earth, and where is genetics when you need it? But we lived in my grandmother’s house. You called it your grandmother’s house, even though there was a grandfather there. But she ruled the roost. And there were 14 of us in a house that wasn’t that big. But my dad was a clothing designer. My mother was a showroom model. And my mother wore a girdle, but she was never fat. And I later learned in life that the reason she wore the girdle was so that when the buyers in the showroom pinched her, it didn’t hurt as much. Those were my parents.
Posner: Well, where was the house that you grew up in?
Rosemond: The house I grew up in was at the corner of Manitoba and Andrews in North Winnipeg.
Posner: So you spent quite a few years there.
Rosemond: Oh, yes. I spent quite a few years there, but we moved. My parents were sort of upwardly mobile, and we moved from Andrews and Manitoba to Lansdowne Avenue. That was an improvement. Oh, my goodness. I had my own room.
Posner: Were there more of you than just Perry? I mean, were there siblings?
Rosemond: No, there was just me. But I was surrounded by cousins who were as close as brothers and sisters, really. And we stayed close for our entire lives. So there was a huge, huge sense of family at 193 Andrews.
Posner: Who would these cousins be?
Rosemond: My cousin Sonny and my cousin Mickey.
Posner: Both Rosemonds?
Rosemond: No, they were on my mother’s side.
Posner: What was her (maiden) name?
Rosemond: Magid.
Posner: MAGGOT. Really? Okay.
Rosemond: And Sonny and Mickey were four years older than me and exploited me at every opportunity. My uncle Dave Rosemond used to manage the Beacon Theater in Winnipeg.
Posner: In the North End.
Rosemond: Yes. And they would go to the Beacon Theater with me and get in for free because of me and still take my 10 cents that my mother gave me for the popcorn. So their mission in life was to exploit Perry Rosemond.
Posner: And you remember it, too.
Rosemond: I do indeed. I do indeed.
Posner: So you went to school where?
Rosemond: William Whyte School.
Posner: And then did you go to (St. Johns) Tech?
Rosemond: I went to Aberdeen and then to Tech. And at William Whyte School, I would go to sleep at night and pray to wake up Ukrainian so that the daily beatings would stop. But it was 50% Ukrainian and 50% Jewish.
Posner: Yeah, you knew what it was like to be a Jew.
Rosemond: Absolutely.
Posner: Did you do any studying in Hebrew or Yiddish?
Rosemond : I did. I went to Hebrew school. And in those days, I sounded like Georgie Jessel, for God’s sakes. In those days, I can’t believe I said that. If you’re going to cut anything, cut “in those days.” Please, Ger, do me a favor. But in those days, the instructors were measured by how much pain they could inflict on the students.
Posner: And you had a bit of that.
Rosemond: A bit of that. I was once thrown against a radiator by Mar Gross, and I still bear the pains to this day.
Posner: But you weren’t a product of Cantor Brownstone’s choir.
Rosemond: No, that was Alan Blye, and he was my friend and my roommate when I moved to Toronto to become an actor.
Posner: Who were some of your buddies in Winnipeg growing up? I guess Blye was one of them.
Rosemond: Blye was very close. Bugsy Lavich was very close, very close, and probably the leading bookmaker of his generation.
Posner: He’s well-known.
Rosemond: Indeed, and remains today my closest and dearest friend. And whenever I think about Bernie, I say to myself, how advantageous is it to have a friend who is the smartest human being in the world? I mean, if I need to know anything, he knows it. He knows it.
Posner: Did you go to university in Winnipeg at all?
Rosemond: I went to the University of Manitoba, and that’s where I got the bug to go into theater because I was Troilus in “Troilus and Cressida.” I was Cassius in “Julius Caesar,” and I was hopeless in the classroom. But it just took me by storm. It really did. And I ended up going to Toronto.
Posner: Well, just hold on a second. Were you not involved in some fashion in the creation of the MTC, the Manitoba Theatre Centre, in its very early days – with John Hirsch?
Rosemond: I was a founding member of the Manitoba Theatre Centre with Gordon Pinsent and Len Cariou – who went on to win a Tony, and Donnelly Rhodes, who went on to be a terrific influence in theatre in Canada. And I was one of the founding members. And you know what was strange, Gerry, is that I thought, boy, if this guy John Hirsch is in Winnipeg, what must they be like in New York or the West End in England? And I never met his match. But boy, could he intimidate me. I was in a play, “Death of a Salesman.” I was playing Bernard, and he came up to me and he said, “Mr. Rosemond, don’t you think you ought to reconsider your interpretation of that lawyer you’re playing?” And it would have been a fair note, except it was given to me after dress rehearsal. I’ve never seen a man customize performance the way he did — everybody got exactly what they needed. He was beyond brilliant. He went to his demise as my mentor and my idol and my friend.
Posner: So he was your introduction to the world of arts.
Rosemond: Absolutely. And strangely enough, we hooked up later when — oh, many, many years later — when he was head of drama at CBC, and he brought me back from Los Angeles to create the program “King of Kensington.”
Posner: When you made that decision somewhere in the ’50s, you’re in your, I guess, 20s, and you make a decision, “I’m going to move to Toronto, and I’m going to go into the arts as a career.” Your parents must have looked at you like you were out of your head.
Rosemond: Do you know, Gerry, it was funny, because beyond the initial beating about the head and shoulders that my father laid on me, they never stopped supporting me. They stood by me, and I can’t tell you how grateful I am for that. 100% support. Let me chart my own course.
Posner: But the odds were stacked against you. Come on.
Rosemond: Oh, tell me about it. I mean, it was about 15 minutes before I realized I wasn’t a very good television actor. I remember sitting in the basement of 42 Bedford Road in Toronto with Gordon Pinsent, who was my other roommate, with Alan Blye, and we were watching a guy who stole a part from me. He was playing the part I was born to play. And I watched it for about 10 minutes, and I said, “You know what, Gordon? He’s better than I would have been.” And Gordon said, “Perry, get out of acting. You don’t have the ego for it.” And I’d been sneaking in and out of control rooms all this time, Gerry. So I got bitten by the behind the scenes. And that’s where I headed.
Posner: So you actually gave up the acting. You went into production.
Rosemond: Exactly, exactly.
Posner: Well, maybe you were fortunate that that happened early on in the career. In your career, as I gather, you’ve touched the lives of some pretty big names. Tell me if I’m wrong here. Dick Van Dyke?
Rosemond: Yes. Len Cariou, Cloris Leachman, Julie Andrews, Steve Martin, Billy Crystal, Donnie and Marie, Johnny Cash, and the list goes on.
Posner: How does this all come about?
Rosemond: Oh, Johnny Cash. That was the best time of my life. Two years in Nashville. I’ll tell you how it came about. Johnny wanted documentary elements in his variety show, and I had trained in both in Canada. So I wasn’t the best documentary filmmaker, and I wasn’t the best comedy variety producer, but the fact that I could do both got me the job directing his show. And when they introduced me to him — it was during the hippie era, so I had the long hair and the whole nine yards.
Posner You weren’t exactly a feature presenter. You didn’t present well.
Rosemond: No, I didn’t present well because Johnny said, “Where are you going to film this week?” And I said, “I’m going to Hazard, Kentucky to film coal miners.” And Johnny said, “Perry, if you go into Hazard, Kentucky on a Saturday night with that long hair and them bell-bottoms, they’re going to kill you.” So this whole Hollywood invasion of middle America was absolutely hysterical. But the show was a big hit.
Posner: Give me the career path. You came here (Toronto) in the ’50s.
Rosemond: OK, I came here in the ’50s, late ’50s, as an actor. Right. Shared a room with Gordon Pinsent and Alan Blye. Right. We were very competitive, but Alan really won because he had a role on a continuing starring role on one of the big variety shows. And if I’m not mistaken, he actually declared Gordon Pinsent and me as dependents on his 1959 tax form. So he definitely was the more successful of the group. Then I went back to Winnipeg in 1960, and I applied as a production assistant. And there were no openings, but there were producer-directors that had quit, and so they gave me a job as a producer-director.
Posner: So I get this is at CBC in Winnipeg, correct?
Rosemond So I got 4,200 bucks for the year, and I did Metro News and a talk show, and then I did a show called “Red River Jamboree,” which was fully sponsored by Kraft Foods, always in the top ten. And, Ger, I’ve been going downhill ever since.
Posner Well, I wouldn’t say that. I don’t know hardly that, based on what I’ve read about you. I’d say you’re climbing the ladder, and you’ve climbed to the top. And then, so how long were you back in Winnipeg?
Rosemond: I was back in Winnipeg until ’63. What happened was I was doing this variety show and I looked eastward and the third best variety producer at CBC in Toronto was a guy by the name of Norman Jewison. And so I thought, oh, my God, I’m never going to get to Toronto, which was Mecca, as a variety producer. So I went to my supervisor and said, “Look, I want to do children’s programming. My heart is with the children.” And so I got transferred to the children’s department in Winnipeg, took two kinescopes under my arm and headed to Toronto, and got a transfer to children’s programming in ’63. ’63 to ’68 Toronto, ’68 to ’85 Los Angeles.
Posner: But what were you doing in LA?
Rosemond: Well, I came out of the Cash show and did Bill Cosby’s show. You might not have heard of him. He hasn’t been in the news much these days. But I did Bill Cosby’s variety show, and from then, Donnie and Marie (then) a situation comedy called “Good Times.” But what happened is I had three shows going in Canada at the same time. I had “Bizarre” on CTV. I had “Tom Jones” on Global TV, and I had “King of Kensington” on CBC. So I thought, well, what am I doing in America?
Posner: So back you came to Canada?
Rosemond: Back to Canada, where I’ve been since ’85.
Posner: Now, in those years, those five years that you alluded to, that you were doing work in children’s programming, you were pretty involved, from what I gather. You did some work on “Children of the World?”
Rosemond: Yeah, that’s probably something of which I’m most proud. It was a series on children in developing nations, and it drew an audience of over 600 million people just in audio-visual distribution.
Posner: Wow. And if I had to say, what’s the number one thing you’ve accomplished? That would be it?
Rosemond: That would be it.
Posner: Really?
Rosemond: Absolutely.
Posner: I understand it won (something called the Japan Prize). I mean, I hadn’t heard of this, but I gather it’s pretty significant. The Japan Prize is (for) the best children’s program.
Rosemond: That’s correct.
Posner: So, you know, that’s saying something. That’s a long way from the North End.
Rosemond: Well, you know what we say. They say, how come there’s so many great people from the North End? And my answer is always the same. It’s a deep and abiding desire to get the heck out of the North End.
Posner: Now, I think, correct me here, in some fashion, not only did you do this program that won this prize, “Children of the World.” But you also were connected, and maybe you can tell me how, to “Mr. Dressup” and “The Friendly Giant?”
Rosemond: That’s right. I was head of children’s programming for a period of time and worked with Mr. Dressup and the Friendly Giant. Friendly Giant, I remember once being in a room with him, and I was giving him some notes, and he turned around and he walked away from me. I thought, well, that’s rude. And then I looked, and a group of schoolchildren had come into the studio. And he was deathly afraid of being seen as anything but a giant. Which he was, by the way. He was a gigantic personality.
Posner: Well, you were the executive producer of those shows, right?
Rosemond: Correct, correct, yeah.
Posner: And in some way you got connected to Sesame Street, too?
Rosemond: That’s right. I was living in Los Angeles, and they asked if I would come back and Canadianize Sesame Street.
Posner Canadianized Sesame Street? I didn’t know there was a Canadianized version.
Rosemond: Well, what we did was we took out the Native American segments and the Spanish segments, and we substituted them with Native Canadian and French. And then gradually we took over and did our own version, a Canadian version of Sesame Street. Again, very gratifying. Back to Winnipeg to do it — that was my blackmail. I said, I’ll come back and do it if I can do it in Winnipeg, because I like the graphics artists in Winnipeg, and I felt I’d get a better product.
Posner: Okay, that’d be what, sometime in the ’80s?
Rosemond: That would have been earlier. That would have been in the ’70s.
Posner: Wow. Well, you kept up your links to Winnipeg.
Rosemond: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Posner: Now, so you’ve had children’s programming. And you also got into, I gather, documentary and public affairs.
Rosemond: Right, yes. “The Way It Is.”
Posner: “The Way It Is” was the Sunday Night flagship show. That was the big show on CBC Sunday night, wasn’t it?
Rosemond: That’s right. It was the big show on CBC Sunday night, and I worked with an executive producer called Ross McLean. I didn’t last too long on that, Gerry. I remember Ross had a very constructive way of winning arguments. We had one argument. And I can’t even remember what it was about, but he won it hands down by throwing a Coke can at my head. And I took a hike, and I never came back to “The Way It Is.”
Posner: That’s the way it was.
Rosemond: That’s the way it was, right.
Posner: You also did what you call profiles for CBC’s “Telescope,” with Oscar Peterson, Arthur Haley, Gordon Pinsent, Glenn Gould, Donald Sutherland. I mean, that was another big show.
Rosemond: Yeah, and that was my entrée to the United States because I became their man in America. And thus I did Donald Sutherland in Hollywood while snooping around for work and Eddie Albert from ‘”Green Acres” and all of the expatriate Canadians who were living in Los Angeles. And that gave me a foothold because I could look for work and still pay the rent. My Canadian qualifications counted for nothing in America. You were zero. Zero. And I was starting from scratch at age 30, and I had to have some kind of income to get things going.
Posner: And then somewhere along the line you got — you oversaw the production, I’m not sure exactly, of “Hockey Night in Canada.” I’m guessing you never even played the game.
Rosemond: I was on the third line of the Chicago Blackhawks in the miniature NHL, you know, and probably the worst ever third liner in the history of Manitoba’s miniature NHL hockey. But here’s the deal with that. When I wanted to come back to Canada, I couldn’t just come back as a freelancer because when they brought me in from America, I was the big American producer that they were bringing to Canada. If I was going to be in Canada, you know the deal, the expert’s always 100 miles from home.
Posner: That’s right.
Rosemond: So I had to have a foothold. So I had worked with Don Ohlmeyer Productions, and they were consulting to Hockey Night. And they wanted to take over Hockey Night. And Don suggested that I come up from America to put them in the hockey business, which I did. And I also started other shows for this company, Molestar Communications, which were more in the entertainment business and more to my liking, like the Juno Awards, I’d escape for a month or two, or a syndicated series called “Starting From Scratch,” which I shot in Montreal. So I would leave the administrative behind and jump back into the trenches whenever I could.
Posner: You know, it’s okay you didn’t play so well in the third line in miniature. You did a little better, I would say. Now, you mentioned David Steinberg. And you produced his show, CTV’s “David Steinberg Show?”
Rosemond: Yes, that’s right.
Posner: Did you even write for that show?
Rosemond: I wrote for it.
Posner: How many scripts would you have written for?
Rosemond: We did one season only, but we had an incredible guest list. David grew up a block away from me, and we knew each other forever. And I’ve done so much with David, and I admire him so much. And David attracted a huge guest list of John Voight and Ethel Merman and Milton Berle, and he also was able to bring out John Candy for his first show and Martin Short and Dave Thomas and Joe Flaherty and all of those people.
Posner: No, I don’t think David Steinberg’s memories of Winnipeg are as warm as yours are. They are kind of, you know. I’m quite surprised to hear you say that because I think in the beginning maybe, you know, when you were a young kid you hate where you came from. Maybe there was some of that. But now he cherishes it.
Rosemond: He does. I also had a lot of clout in being able to, if I may say so, book enormous talent because we had Marty Short and Andrea Martin, and I was able to book Howie Mandel, because I gave him his first shot in America on Norm Crosby’s “Comedy Shop.” And I got to tell you this really boring story, but I’ll try to make it quick.
Posner: Okay.
Rosemond: My partner and I on Norm Crosby’s Comedy Shop could veto any act that appeared on the show. So Howie’s manager was Saul Holliff’s nephew, and Saul was Johnny Cash’s manager, who was very good to me on “The Johnny Cash Show.” So he said, could you put my act on? And I said, send a tape. So he sent the tape of Howie, you know, with the faucet on the forehead and the diaper and God knows what else. And before we were 15 seconds into it, my partner Joe Sigmund raised his hand and he said, “I veto.” I said, “Joe, it’s Saul Holliff’s nephew’s act. We’ve got to put him on. Let’s tape him. We won’t use it.” And six months later, to make a long story even a little longer, Phil Kives from Winnipeg of K-Tel came to order a DVD from us. And he said, “make sure that you put on the DVD the kid with the diaper.”
Posner: Okay. You know, I’m just barely starting and we’ve got to finish this. Tell me, Perry.
Rosemond: Yeah.
Interviewer: What’s the story? Are you into retirement mode or you’re still going at it?
Rosemond: My dream is that it’s “ready camera.” I want Ingmar Bergman to shoot this, by the way. My dream is “ready camera one” and aneurysm, and in slow motion my head starts to descend to the console and I’m dead before I even hit it.
Posner: You’re still working. Still working. And I guess you still connect to Winnipeg.
Rosemond: Absolutely. I was there several times to do specials in Winnipeg, and I still would go back today, especially with the tax credits.
Posner: Perry, it’s a joy to have you. I tell you, we barely scratched the surface, and I appreciate your taking the time to come and do this.
Rosemond: Can I tell you, and I say this in all honesty, you are one terrific interviewer.
Posner: Well, thanks very much. I enjoy doing it.
Post script (added by Bernie Bellan): Some of the things that Gerry omitted from his interview were that Rosemond also produced the terrific documentary, “When Jews Were Funny,” which was named best Canadian Feature Film at the 2013 Toronto Film Festival.
As his obituary on the Benjamin’s Parrk Memoria Chapel website also notes: “In 2003, Perry was appointed a member of the Order of Canada, a national recognition for a career that entertained, educated, and made Canadians laugh.
“But Perry never measured his life by accolades, he measured it in smiles. He lived to spread laughter and joy. It was his way of making people feel seen and valued. He will be dearly missed and forever loved.”
Local News
From a ‘pie in the sky’ idea to 2,400 young hockey players
By BERNIE BELLAN I didn’t used to cover sports for The Jewish Post & News except for the odd occasion.
For years we could count on the late, great Harvey Rosen to comb the waterfront, looking for any sports story that might have the least connection to anything Jewish. Harvey would even go into visiting teams’ locker rooms during Winnipeg Jets games and, if a player had a name that sounded Jewish, inquire whether that player might be Jewish.
Then, for a few years, we added well-known sports writer Scott Taylor to the mix. Scott offered quite a different perspective, looking for stories about athletes that went far behind the scenes to uncover details that other reporters might have missed.
With both Harvey and Scott gone from our pages, I’ve occasionally found myself filling the sports void. These days, however, I tend to wait for an interesting story to find me.
And that’s exactly what happened with Wheatland Hockey.
Recently, my neighbours Elliot and Linda Katz mentioned that they knew of a Jewish couple who had started a hockey development program in Winnipeg. The couple, Rich Hechter and Rachel Wolfenson, had apparently started Wheatland Hockey only about 16 months earlier.
I subsequently learned that, in that short time, more than 2,400 young hockey players had gone through Wheatland’s various programs.
That number got my attention.
So, I contacted Rachel and Rich to find out what they had created — and why.
It started with a gap
The idea for Wheatland began, as Rachel described it to me, as “this little pie in the sky idea that we were going to have a spring development program in the spring of 2025.”
They started with about 50 kids spread across three age groups.
Sixteen months later, Wheatland has grown into a broad hockey-development organization offering programs for players from U9 through U15, along with specialized programming, female hockey, spring and summer teams, events and high-performance opportunities.
But the numbers aren’t really the story.
The story is why they thought Wheatland needed to exist in the first place.
Rich and Rachel felt there was a gap between traditional minor hockey and the highly specialized — and often expensive — training programs available to elite players.
There were plenty of opportunities for kids to play hockey. But what about the player who needed to improve one particular part of their game? What about the U9 player whose parents had no idea what skills their child should be working on? What about the player who wasn’t an elite athlete but had the potential to become a much better hockey player with the right instruction?
That was the space they wanted Wheatland to occupy.
As Rachel explained it, some families come to Wheatland knowing exactly what their child needs.
“They might know that the kid’s gap is power skating,” she told me. “They might have a great shot and great stick handling, but they’re not strong skaters.”
Other families arrive with a much less specific question.
“They’re new U9 families,” Rachel said. “Their kids have been spat out of the Timbits world and into the U9 world and they don’t know what to focus on.”
That’s where Rich comes in.
‘Pedagogy on ice’
Rich brings an unusual background to hockey coaching.
He is currently taking a one-year sabbatical from his role as vice-principal of Brock Corydon School, the Winnipeg school often known as the only public school Hebrew bilingual program in North America. For many families in Winnipeg’s Jewish community, Brock Corydon is where they know Rich best.
Before becoming a vice-principal, he worked as a high school teacher and as a university professor in the Faculty of Education. He has also spent more than a decade coaching youth hockey.
This year, rather than stepping away from education, Rich is using his sabbatical as an opportunity to continue learning, writing, and growing as a coach and mentor while devoting more time to developing Wheatland Hockey.
That additional time will also allow Wheatland to extend its reach beyond Winnipeg through a new initiative called “Wheatland on the Road”.
Over the coming year, Rich will travel to rural Manitoba communities including Manitou, St. Laurent, Lundar, Steinbach and Elm Creek to lead coaching and mentoring sessions for local players and coaches.
The initiative reflects Wheatland’s belief that access to quality coaching should not depend on where a young player lives. It also gives Rich an opportunity to work directly with local hockey communities, sharing ideas and helping coaches develop their own approaches to teaching the game.
For Rich, education and hockey aren’t separate worlds.
Rachel described his approach as “pedagogy on ice.”
The idea is simple: coaching isn’t just about showing a young player how to execute a skill. It’s about understanding how that player learns, figuring out what they need, and creating an environment where they can improve.
That educational philosophy is evident in the way Wheatland approaches development.
Its programs focus on areas such as skating, puck control, shooting, passing and receiving, positional play, defensive skills, checking, hockey IQ and tactical understanding.
But the organization also talks openly about developing confidence, resilience and character.
The Wheatland philosophy is summed up on its website as building “skills, character and excellence — on and off the ice.”
And that distinction is important to Rich.
The objective isn’t simply to produce better hockey players.
It’s to help young people become better learners, teammates and competitors.
A Jewish leadership team in an unlikely business
There is also an irony at the heart of Wheatland’s success.
We are not exactly the people known for our sporting prowess, and none of the people leading Wheatland played in the NHL. Yet, the organization is run by Rachel and Rich, with Ryan Paul, Eleni Wener, Avi Walker and Dustin Roitelman in senior leadership roles.
That may be unusual in the hockey world, but it is also part of what makes Wheatland distinctive.
This is not a business built around former professional players leveraging on their own playing careers. It is being led by people who believe deeply in the values Wheatland has developed — and continues to develop.
They believe in teaching young people how to learn, how to work with others, how to persevere and how to contribute to their communities.
In that sense, Wheatland’s leadership team reflects the organization’s broader philosophy: hockey expertise matters, but so do education, mentorship, organization, empathy and a commitment to making the game more accessible.
The fact that this group has helped build a hockey organization serving thousands of young players from across Manitoba is, in its own way, pretty remarkable.
Making hockey and coaching accessible
Perhaps the most important word in Wheatland’s philosophy is accessibility.
“Accessibility is one of our guiding principles,” Rachel said. “We believe that all kids should have the opportunity to get on the ice, regardless of socioeconomic conditions.”
For Rich and Rachel, accessibility means more than making hockey available. They believe that good coaching should be accessible, too.
That commitment is reflected in Wheatland’s “Pay-What-You-Can” program, which helps ensure that financial circumstances do not prevent children and families from participating in quality hockey programming.
For Rachel and Rich, the program is one way of giving back to the broader community. They believe that hockey — and the opportunity to learn from good coaches — should be available to as many young people as possible, not limited only to families who can afford the full cost of specialized training.
That doesn’t mean Wheatland is trying to be everything to everyone.
Rather, the idea is that a family shouldn’t need to have an elite-level hockey player — or an elite-level hockey budget — to access good coaching.
The organization keeps its groups relatively small. A typical session might have four or five players, while a larger session could have as many as 20, with several coaches on the ice.
The result is that a player who shows up to a smaller session can end up receiving something approaching a semi-private lesson without the family having to pay a premium for that experience.
And, Rachel noted, if only a handful of players show up for a session, “they would get the benefit of a semi-private class for a very inexpensive cost.”
Building coaches, too
Wheatland’s emphasis on development doesn’t stop with the players.
The organization has also created a Junior Coach program, through which some of its younger participants have an opportunity to begin learning how to teach the game themselves.
Five of Wheatland’s junior coaches are under the age of 15.
That’s significant because it reflects another part of Rich and Rachel’s philosophy: hockey development isn’t simply about producing better players. It’s about creating people who can contribute to the hockey community.
The organization’s coaching staff also includes experienced coaches with backgrounds in player development, athletic development and hockey education.
The same philosophy is at the heart of Wheatland on the Road. By working with coaches in rural communities, Rich hopes to help build local coaching capacity so that players can continue benefiting from quality instruction long after his visit is over.
Hockey as a bridge between communities
One of Wheatland’s most memorable recent initiatives involved a visiting Israeli hockey club.
The visiting players took part in two on-ice sessions with Rich and Ryan. After changing out of their gear, the young players then visited Rich at Brock Corydon School, where they met with grade 5 and 6 students.
For the players from Israel, the experience offered more than additional hockey instruction. It gave them an opportunity to connect with Winnipeg students through a shared language — the language of hockey — while also learning about one another’s communities.
For Wheatland, the sessions demonstrated how hockey can create meaningful connections that extend well beyond the rink.
Rachel and Rich
While Rich is the face of Wheatland on the ice, Rachel’s role is largely behind the scenes.
A Senior Investment Advisor with TD Private Wealth Management, Rachel brings an entirely different skill set to the organization, overseeing operations and communications and helping ensure that families have a positive experience from the moment they register.
The division of responsibilities seems to work. Rachel brings the organizational perspective needed to turn an idea into an operation. Rich brings the educator’s perspective to player development.
The broader leadership team brings additional experience, energy and commitment to the values that guide Wheatland.
And somewhere along the way, that little “pie in the sky” idea became something considerably larger.
More than 2,400 kids have now gone through Wheatland’s programs in just 16 months.
That’s a lot of hockey players. But when I asked Rachel what she thought accounted for that kind of growth, her answer wasn’t really about hockey.
It was about giving families something they were looking for.
“We teach people first, we teach hockey second,” is the philosophy Rich and Rachel have adopted.
Perhaps that’s why Wheatland has grown so quickly.
Because for all the talk about hockey development, what they are really trying to develop is something bigger: young people who feel supported, challenged and capable of getting better.
And through initiatives such as the Pay-What-You-Can program, Wheatland on the Road and its work with visiting teams, Wheatland is also showing how hockey can be both accessible and a bridge between communities.
If the first 16 months are any indication, there are a lot of Winnipeg families — and perhaps many potential community partners across Manitoba — who were looking for exactly that.
For more information about Wheatland Hockey, visit Wheatland Hockey.
Local News
“Fiddler on the Roof”: First ever joint production between Winnipeg Jewish Theatre and Rainbow Stage is a smash hit
By BERNIE BELLAN You really can’t go wrong by mounting a production of “Fiddler on the Roof” – and Rainbow Stage has proven that four previous times: in 1971, 1977, 1984, and 1993.
What each of those productions had in common though – aside from the fact that they were solely Rainbow Stage productions, was that each time the star role of Tevye the milkman was played by Cliff Gardner who, in his day job, was the program director at CJOB radio.
I can’t remember how many times I saw Fiddler at Rainbow State previously but, after a while it wasn’t quite the novel experience it was the first time I had seen it there.
But now – as a result of a very creative idea, “Fiddler on the Roof” has been brought back to Rainbow Stage once more – but this time as a co-production with the Winnipeg Jewish Theatre.
The idea for mounting a joint production came from WJT’s artistic director, Dan Petrenko who, as Myron Love noted in an article for The Jewish Post this past February, had observed that “ Because of the times we’re living through, and particularly the growing antisemitism in our communities and across the country, I felt there is a need to tell a story that celebrates Jewish culture on the largest stage in the city – to reach as many people as possible.’ ”
Myron’s article went on to say that “Last year, WJT approached Rainbow Stage with a proposal for the co-presentation of “Fiddler on the Roof.” Rainbow Stage management was really enthusiastic in their response, Petrenko said.”
In my own profile of Dan Petrenko, which I wrote in April 2023, when he first came to Winnipeg, just after having been hired as the WJT’s new artistic director, I noted that “Dan was born in Israel, the son of Jewish parents who had moved from their hometown of Odessa in Ukraine.
“A formative influence in his life, he says, was his grandmother, who had been a pianist in Ukraine. She had aspirations early in her life to study in a music conservatory, but the antisemitism that was pervasive in the Soviet Union prevented her from achieving that ambition. Instead, she had to travel all the way to Siberia in order to obtain training to become a pianist.”
After re-reading my own article about Petrenko in preparation for writing about the new production of “Fiddler on the Roof,” now on at Rainbow Stage until Sept. 13, I couldn’t help but note the parallels in Petrenko’s own life and the story that is at the heart of “Fiddler,” which is one of Jews having to cope with antisemitism in their native Ukraine and finally being forced to leave their home community of Anitevka – for parts unknown.
While “Fiddler” has so many dimensions – from its story of persecution, of girls being kept from studying because of age old taboos, of marriages being arranged, to notions of democracy – and socialism, starting to be espoused in the late 1800s in Eastern Europe – it’s the music that really drives the show.
I don’t have to remind anyone how timeless the songs from “Fiddler” have become. There have been documentaries produced, both about how the Broadway show came about and later, how Norman Jewison crafted a quite different approach to telling the story of Tevye the milkman in his brilliant movie adaptation of the Broadway musical. There have also been several books telling the story how three geniuses: Sheldon Harnick, Joseph Stein, and Jerry Bock, combined to create something that is as timeless in its own way as any musical could ever be.
But, what can you say about the WJT-Rainbow Stage co-production of “Fiddler'” that couldn’t possibly avoid using superlatives? Playing to a sold-out audience on opening night, Wednesday, September 9, even though there was a slight chill in the air as the evening wore on – and certainly mounting a show at Rainbow Stage in September is a chancy proposition – the evening was one of pure magic.
I don’t know who came up with the idea of having the orchestra play behind the performers – as opposed to the usual practice of having them play in the pit in front of the stage – but it was sheer genius to do that. I’ve often attended Rainbow Stage and been frustrated that the singers’ voices are drowned out by the musicians’ instruments – but not this night.
Each note sung could be heard clear as a bell – even from the children who played Tevye and Golde’s youngest daughters.
The performances were universally excellent – all the way from Daniel Kash as Tevye and Debbie Maslowsky (a name very familiar both to WJT and Rainbow Stage attendees) to everyone else in the cast. It would be unfair to single out anyone in the cast for special praise; they were all so good, but if there was one moment that was absolutely thrilling above all else, it was when the opening note to the Russian song “Za vashe zdorovye” (to your health) in the famous tavern scene that culminates with “To Life” was belted out.
And, having the Rusalka Ukrainian dancers perform only added to the evening’s excitement. The exuberance they brought to the wedding scene was a demonstration of how combining the talents of one of Winnipeg’s most exciting dance troupes with many Winnipeg performers who had previously appeared either in WJT or Rainbow Stage productions was a demonstration of just how much talent there is right here in Winnipeg.
Sadly, by the time this is published this version of “Fiddler on the Roof” is only scheduled to be performed two more times: Saturday, Sept. 12, at 7:30 pm and Sunday, Sept. 13, at 2:00 pm. Tickets had been going fast as of the time of publication, but if you want to check with the box office, the number is 204-989-0888
