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U.S. military expert John Spencer to speak in Winnipeg Sept. 11… argues Israel isn’t committing genocide in Gaza

(Canadian Jewish News Sept. 10, 2024) Maj. (Ret.) John Spencer is an American army veteran who heads the Modern War Institute at the U.S. military’s prestigious West Point Academy in New York State. His books and courses about fighting historic urban and tunnel wars have been widely quoted—he’s even interviewed Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu—who name-dropped the former combat officer’s research during his speech to Congress in July. The Israel Defence Forces like Spencer’s work so much that they’ve brought the Iraq veteran with them three times inside some of the captured Hamas tunnels under Gaza.

Ahead of two speaking engagements in Canada this week—in Winnipeg on Sept. 11 and Toronto on Sept. 12 —Spencer joined The CJN Daily podcast to share his eyewitness accounts of three research tours with the IDF inside the terrorists’ tunnels. Spencer explains why the Philadelphi corridor and 100 tunnels between Egypt and Gaza are what’s holding up a ceasefire deal that some believe could free the hostages.

Although Spencer wasn’t present 10 days ago when the IDF discovered the bodies of six executed hostages under Rafah, he understands why the entrance to that tunnel was actually hidden in the bedroom of a Palestinian child’s room in Gaza. Despite the latest heinous war crime that has rocked Israel and people around the world, Spencer feels Israel is still winning the war against Hamas.

The CJN: Readers may not have been following your prolific writings about what’s been happening in Israel since Oct. 7, but they may have seen when Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu name-dropped you in his speech to Congress. Can you just give our listeners a bit of background on what role, if any, you are playing officially or unofficially advising the Israeli government in this war? 

Spencer: Sure. So I’m playing absolutely no official or unofficial role, but my research and my writings have been used significantly to fight the disinformation. I have done multiple visits to Israel and three visits into Gaza with the IDF since Oct. 7, which has informed my writing and research, but no official or unofficial role. 

My research has been, including by the prime minister, many, many times, used to fight the disinformation about what the IDF are actually doing in Gaza to pursue the political objectives provided by the government for the war against Hamas. 

The CJN: We’re interviewing you just a few days after the bodies of the six Israeli executed hostages were discovered in a 20-metre deep tunnel under Rafah. What can you tell us about this particular tunnel, and what is significant about it?

Spencer: There’s a lot of unknowns about it, but we know that it was in conjunction to the IDF recent discovery of a living hostage. Nobody knew that in those targeted operations, because intelligence drives operations. Israel was conducting this operation in the Rafah area, successfully retrieving the live hostage in a tunnel, but without knowing nearby Hamas saw and heard the IDF and then entered another tunnel without the IDF’s knowledge, basically in very close proximity. And because of that IDF operation, I believe that Hamas entered their deep tunnel that they were holding the hostages for all their reasons that are illegal and not in accordance with the law of war, and brutally murdered each one of those six hostages. Then we saw the release of the videos that were very recently filmed. 

We don’t know if that was filmed in the tunnel, but we do know where the bodies were found was in this 20-metre deep tunnel in Rafah, which does pain a lot of people because of the different delays in the Rafah operation to basically search and clear the areas in which now where this all occurred, where they were later discovered through the IDF operation and brought home, finally to their families. 

The CJN: You’ve been in the tunnels. Tell us what you saw. Where did you go? 

Spencer:  My first visit (was) in December.  I actually was taken to the massive tunnel that was discovered outside of the Erez humanitarian zone. So this is a two-and-a-half mile tunnel that went a hundred feet underground. It was a massive invasion tunnel that you could drive trucks through, that had advanced wiring, ventilation, power, telecommunications. It was a multimillion-dollar tunnel that went right up to the Israeli-Gaza wall. It wasn’t used on Oct. 7, but the discovery is just massive. And then it went all the way back into the Gaza urban areas and had many branches. For me as somebody who studies underground warfare, just the sophistication of this and the realization that this is just one of hundreds of massive tunnels that they have found. And the realization of this underground world that Hamas built.

I got to tour this one, but it was also a realization of the 400-plus miles of tunnels in Gaza, costing billions of dollars, unmeasurable amounts of concrete and steel to build this infrastructure underground for the sole purpose of terror. No civilians are allowed in this. 

When I went back in February, I went with the IDF, the 98th division, into Khan Younis.

It was really going through all they’re doing to protect civilians, which I’m sure we’ll talk about, but also just how hard it is to find the tunnels. One of the places I went with the division commander was where they had had intelligence that there was a tunnel, but you just couldn’t see it while standing on the surface. And actually they were doing their procedures to drill and look for the tunnel that was really connecting to a mosque and was coming out of a mosque.

And they found that tunnel. I was basically standing on top of an enemy tunnel that was deep underground. When I went back in July 2024, I went into the Netzarim corridor with the IDF. This area where they’re creating a corridor, not just a road, from Israel all the way to the Mediterranean through Gaza, to create this security zone.

I had this realization and saw on the maps how many tunnels were just in the corridor. You can’t take a step in Gaza without actually feeling and having some belief that there’s a tunnel underneath you. 

Now, I also learned through these different visits from December, February, and July that there are different types of tunnels in Gaza.  As you were wrestling with, well, how many tunnels, how many tunnels has the IDF destroyed, is that there are levels of tunnels: from strategic ones, like that one I was in December that is for large movements or there are ones that actually connect northern Gaza to southern Gaza, which most people didn’t know. They’re in the Netzarim corridor. This is in the area of the Wadi Gaza, which is this river basin that splits northern Gaza and southern Gaza. It used to be a river, but it isn’t anymore. They’ve discovered over a mile-long, two-mile-long tunnels that go underneath that river basin. So something they just didn’t think was possible. So you can basically enter northern Gaza, the very tip of Gaza and come out in Rafah basically in a tunnel.

And those are strategic tunnels. But there are also little tactical tunnels that go from one building to another. 

There are tunnels that are used for command and control, like in Khan Younis they found luxury tunnels for the leadership of Hamas, with air conditioners and ceilings and, you know, kitchens and barracks. The IDF is then making a decision on which ones are critical to military capabilities that have to be destroyed. Can you ever really destroy all these? That’s some of what I’ve learned. 

The CJN: What are the challenges for the IDF in this kind of warfare that we wouldn’t know about from, let’s say,the equipment that doesn’t work, that would work above ground? 

Spencer: So this is getting into the classes I teach in our urban warfare operations course. Underground, people think it’s just the extension of the surface. You have something like a building or something, you have an underground. 

The CJN: Yeah, well we’re used to subway tunnels where the Wi-Fi works, right? 

Spencer: Yes. When you enter the underground, it’s more like going underwater. You can’t breathe without assistance underground and all the contaminants that are underground. It’s very dangerous to just breathe. You can’t see. For military personnel, none of your night vision goggles work, because usually night vision relies on ambient light. And this is a “no light” area.

You can’t communicate because most communication equipment relies on line-of-sight or satellites. So you can’t communicate underground. You can’t navigate. GPS, all of that doesn’t work. You can’t even shoot your weapons because of the concussion of your weapon. So you have to have all specialized equipment designed only for the underground.

Now, unique to Israel, and this is why I’ve been studying Israel for years, is they developed a special unit, the Yahalom, it’s their basic version of a tunnel rats, an entire brigade of special forces engineers who try to develop the equipment, all the drones and robots and dogs and everything that can operate underground, but also the equipment for the soldiers, the tactics. They have the biggest world force that has been dedicated to being able to operate underground and they have been used heavily in Gaza. I also came to the quick realization that yes, you have this specialized unit, soldiers, equipment, everything, but it’s nowhere near the amount that you will need for the size of the tunnels in Gaza. 

The CJN: Okay. And you were mentioning the fact that the IDF is being pilloried for not being humanitarian enough in its military operations and you’ve studied war in tunnels as well in other countries and you’ve been deployed yourself. Why do you feel that the world is not giving Israel a fair shake in terms of how it’s doing this war against civilians? 

Spencer: Well, at the macro level, it seems for Israel, Gaza is where the truth dies. The accusation that Israel has been disproportionate, indiscriminate, excessive, or starving the population. While none of those are true, there’s actually a counterfactual huge body of evidence, actually real and physical. Like the “starvation”. I went to the Netzarim corridor, saw where the (U.S. humanitarian) pier used to be, and there were just mountains, a whole field of humanitarian aid that just hadn’t been picked up. But from the actual execution of war, like you said, for the IDF, there’s no comparison. So the IDF was being compared to other operations where just this tunnel challenge of being able to find and operate with an entire world underneath the urban areas.

Hamas built this world underneath their civilians for the sole purpose of using everything on the surface to cause [criticism from] the international community. the destruction, the civilian casualties, everything, but all these lies about being disproportionate, proportionality–nobody’s faced this challenge in modern history. No military has. 

And then the other thing, which is what the prime minister and other Israeli officials or government use, which is backed up by data, is that in this execution of this war against Hamas, a defender who’s had 15 years to prepare for the attack of the IDF, Israel has done more and has implemented more civilian harm-mitigation measures than any military in the history of war, to include the U. S., Canada, the coalitions, to prevent civilian casualties and destruction. Like evacuating cities, like dropping [leaflets], the use of daily pauses, the use of certain munitions. There’s a long list that I go through. There’s actually over 10 civilian harm-mitigation measures that Israel has implemented, some that have never been created before in the history of war, like tracking civilian populations with their cell phones on or off and then restricting them. This is what I saw in Khan Younis, restricting the IDF operations because of that overriding aspect of preventing civilian harm, trying to get the civilians out of harm’s way, even though Egypt, which owns a lot of the destruction, the civilian casualties, and [took in] not a single refugee. So even that aspect of fighting a war against a military who’s trying to get their civilians killed without a complete area to move civilians to, into the Sinai, which would be really realistic. So the idea of how to find a way to create a safer zone within Gaza while still moving against Hamas.

The CJN:  I know that a lot of people have criticized your view saying, ‘Well, it’s hard for them to be humanitarian when they’re trapped, or their cell phones aren’t working’. But we don’t have to talk about that now, I just wanted to raise the point that some people wouldn’t agree. 

I want to talk about what the challenges are for Hamas in these tunnels. You said Israel can’t see, some of their stuff doesn’t work. But in terms of Hamas and the soldiers that are living down there, I read somewhere recently that there’s sort of an operations manual that was recently discovered that they have to switch them out, because they can’t be in the dark. It’s bad for their mental health. What do you know about the psychological and physical challenges for Hamas [and the hostages and the IDF] to stay down there?

Spencer: Well, so it’s being sensory deprived basically. So when you enter a tunnel, you’re being sensory deprived. And matter of fact, not all soldiers can operate underground. You get things like vertigo, you get claustrophobia.  Just for the breathing, you start to get breathing problems, right? Because even if you have ventilation, which many of these [tunnels] do, there’s still immense amounts of contaminants, from going to the bathroom down there. It’s foreign to the human body. So all of those start to come into place. You can’t spend your life underground without ever coming to the surface. They rotate them because of that psychological impact of being sensory deprived, the contaminants in the air, all really human functions that you’re dealing with down there. You can lose a sense of time.

We kind of know that you kind of need vitamin D every once in a while, so you need the sunlight. So there’s a whole bunch of reasons why it’s really bad. For me, it reckons the understanding that the hostages have been held, many of them—although some of them have been held in civilian apartments and doctors’ apartments and things like that—are being held in this place that’s really unhealthy, inhumane, and unsanitary for humans to live in.

For Hamas, which I don’t really care about, yeah, it’s bad for them to stay underground for a long time. And if they’re rotated, it may help with that. 

The CJN: In terms of where (Hamas leader) Yahya Sinwar is, does anyone know if there is any evidence that he’s still in a tunnel somewhere? 

Spencer: I consult open source intelligence, I do only unclassified. There is, I guess, direct evidence. I think from all rational, reasonable analysis that is the belief that he’s there and what he would lose if he left just from a war objective stance. Just for the fact that Israel was able to take out Mohammed Deif, who is considered like the ghost of Hamas, the original founder of Hamas’s military. I think it’s highly likely that Israel, to include all of the intelligence organizations, have a really good idea of where he’s at in Gaza, but that he has surrounded himself with hostages and that he’s likely surrounded himself with tens of thousands of Palestinians in the areas in which Israel has had to create the safer zones that Hamas has since day one used for their advantages to include firing rockets from within. Mohammed Deif was within a stone’s throw of the humanitarian zone.

So yes, I believe that Israel has a really good idea of the general area. Although it’s a small area, right? Gaza, the Gaza Strip, is 25 miles long, seven to five miles wide in its longest area. It’s still two million people for one person to hide. There’s rumours of him dressing up like a woman, things like that, to hide and move within the tunnels.

There’s one video of him and his family, which is interesting because it’s the only civilians ever allowed in the tunnels, moving through the tunnels of Khan Younis back in the beginning of the war. I think he’s there. I think he is mostly underground for most of the time, like a rat, but that he’s also within this area of hundreds of thousands of civilians. It would be really hard to know exactly where he’s at.

The CJN: Your position is Israel actually winning this war? Because you’ve said yes and, and I’d like to explore that a bit. 

Spencer:  I wrote a Foreign Affairs article countering actually four major articles that have been published on ‘Israel isn’t winning. Israel is actually creating more terrorists than it’s killing’. All of these wrong frameworks.

Israel absolutely is winning its war against Hamas in Gaza, because I taught strategy at West Point. Wars have a start, they have an end. They have political goals, which can change, although Israel hasn’t changed its three primary goals for the war against Hamas. Those are: number one, return the hostages. Number two, destroy Hamas, its political and military power in the Gaza Strip. And number three, secure the borders. 

There’s different wording for them, but those are the three goals. And Israel is absolutely [winning] all three of those.  Especially with the hostages.  They brought home over half the hostages to include over a hundred living hostages. But there is the myth that Israel could have brought them home a different way. It could have been negotiated in the beginning.

It could have done it without military force. It’s just not reality. 

And I go through that in this Foreign Affairs article, that it’s been a combination of diplomatic, military, and other forms of national power that have brought over half the hostages home.

The CJN:  So is Israel’s border with Gaza safer now? We’re not even talking about Hezbollah because that’s a whole other thing, and same with the West Bank, we don’t have time. How is Israel’s border safer today than on Oct. 7?

Spencer: Yeah, absolutely. The whole security framework that was before Oct. 7th will not ever happen again. The reliance on only technologies, minimal forces, the wall, everything. So Israel is building a buffer zone of up to a kilometer from where the wall was. It’s created more corridors through Gaza, which will allow it to project power. It’s secured, which is vital, the southern border between Gaza and Egypt and eliminated the super highway that we now know was there for underground smuggling of weapons, men, weapons, equipment, financing, everything. It sealed that. So just from an overall sense of securing southern Israel from Gaza and the threats of Gaza, it’s massive engineering projects, both creating the buffer zone all the way around, eliminating all the tunnels that were there, creating the Netzarim corridor. There’s new entry points into Gaza that will allow for this new security framework to be in place.

The CJN: You mentioned the Netzarim corridor, so let’s talk about it before we end. Our listeners may have started to hear the words Philadelphi corridor as part of the reason for the holdup [in any ceasefire deal] and the latest huge controversy out of Israel this past week between the government. You mentioned where it is. It’s the border between Gaza and Egypt, which Israel withdrew from in its agreement to disengage from Gaza years ago. And then they’ve reoccupied it because Egypt was allowing, as you said, all this smuggling to go through. And that’s been a big flashpoint.

Why is that so important now in what happens next? 

Spencer: In order to destroy Hamas, which is not the idea of Hamas, but the military power and the political power of Hamas, what Israel has done along this border between Gaza and Egypt, which is only like an eight-to-10-mile stretch of land, but they have moved in, secured it and cut off the bloodline to Hamas, which is in wars actually unique because even in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, that ability for the enemy to be resupplied, to have sanctuary, to get new stuff in,  the U.S. military really struggled with it.  But Israel has been able to actually cut off Hamas now because of the Philadelphi corridor, from all of that resupply of rockets, everything, even financing. Now the contention is how long does Israel need to hold that piece of ground? Does it always need to have forces there, physically there, securing it? I personally believe not so. 

The Israel-Gaza wall, the border wall between Israel and Gaza actually worked. It has a very deep subterranean aspect to it with a bunch of advanced sensors. Egypt was talking about that before it was actually discovered that there’s over a hundred massive tunnels going between Egypt and Gaza to include ones you can drive giant trucks through. Egypt was talking about putting up that wall.  Eventually, I think there will be a new, basically an Israeli-style wall there that will prevent that subterranean traffic because on the surface, you can use advanced technologies, although you don’t rely only on that. Egypt did send a division of armour, basically an armoured brigade to the border, early in the war, and put up a new wall because they also didn’t want anybody coming across their border. 

Why is this such a big issue for Hamas? Why is Hamas saying ‘You will not get any hostages back unless you leave the Philadelphi corridor’? Because it’s their vital aspect of surviving. All they have to do to win this war is survive.

They have ideas on how to do that.  They’re grasping for this corridor. This highway for them is very vital to their survival and to be able to bring more weapons in, to be able to get out, all these things. But they also have ideas to give up political power. I call this the Hezbollah model. Hamas has put forward a plan to bring in some technocrats to govern Gaza, but they maintain military power. Sounds a lot like Hezbollah in Lebanon, although Hezbollah is also part of the government. So they’re grasping at trying to survive the war and basically win. And Israel has said that’s not going to happen. We’re going to demilitarize the strip. We’re going to actually start de-radicalization programs. We’re going to secure the entire border around so that Hamas can’t survive.

The CJN: How long is this going to take and can Israel actually win or this is going to happen again? 

Spencer: So I got this [question] actually in October. How long will this take? How long will it take to clear the urban areas of Hamas’s military capabilities, tunnels, infrastructure? I mean, they found deep buried weapons manufacturing plants and just nobody knew that they were there, that it was possible to do that.

I always say, it isn’t how much time it will take, but how much time do they have? 

Even General Dwight Eisenhower, after World War II said it would take 50 years to re-educate the Nazis. And if you ever thought we were going to give them the ability to wage war again, you were crazy. How long will it take to demilitarize the Gaza Strip? A very long time.

How long will it take to de-radicalize Hamas? But there is a path, right? It is up to Israel. 

Israel is winning, but it’s up to Israel as a democratic country. It’s up to Israel if it ultimately wins, because what is very common in war, is you have to bring in another power. You can demilitarize and you can degrade Hamas to where it’s this guerrilla force, which Israel is very close to doing. Hamas doesn’t have military capability. It’s a guerrilla force hiding in the shadows, governing from the shadows, using humanitarian aid as coercive power over the people. But Israel has to basically help put in a new power.  That will be the ultimate win, is that Hamas never rules again. 

You have to put in another power. There are many ways to do that. You have to start post-conflict operations like de-radicalization programs, reconstruction, and new governance, institutions, all this stuff, which is very common in war, but it will take a very, very long time. And Israel has to, for their survival, the Israeli people especially have to understand that basically.

The CJN: Canada stopped arms permits to Israel back in January. Does that even make a difference to Israel? Are they being hurt by this?

Spencer: I’m sure it absolutely is a problem. It might not be what Canada is providing, it’s the international context that sends a signal to other allies. Israel’s strength is its allies in all wars. So when one ally of Israel says, ‘Because of this, because of these lies, this misinformation, we’re not going to support you with this small item’, which might not have an immediate impact, but globally, you know, in the international context, in the multi-international allies that is Israel’s strength, including in the region Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, it matters. So it’s a horrible signal to send to the world and to send to Israel. 

The CJN: And then Britain just did it too. 

Spencer: Yeah, Britain did it too.  It’s very bad because it’s baseless. It’s based on disinformation. It’s based on things like 40,000 Palestinians killed in Gaza, which is not true. It’s a lie. Where does the number come from? What does it mean? Because now there’s this effect-based ideology, kind of like we see with Canada, Britain, and others, they’re using the data on how many people have died. Look how much destruction. There was another way.

The huge myth of this war is that there was another way to bring the hostages home, remove Hamas from power so it can’t do another Oct. 7. Because since Oct. 7, Hamas has publicly said that’s their goal. They will do this as many times as it takes to achieve our goal. The idea that there was another way. And it’s actually a fallacy.

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“American Hostage” – 8-part TV series shot in Winnipeg and now being aired on TV features several local Jewish actors – and a star Jewish director

By BERNIE BELLAN If you had been following the coverage that the Winnipeg Free Press has given to several major American-originated film and TV productions that have been shot in and around Winnipeg in recent years, you would know by now that Winnipeg has become a popular destination for production companies looking for a particular vibe – especially the kind of look the Exchange District can impart for period pieces.
And, while stars such as Bob Odenkirk (perhaps best known for his star role in “Better Call Saul”) sang the praises of Winnipeg to such a degree that he decided to shoot not just one, but three feature films here, Odenkirk’s praise for Winnipeg certainly reverberated among other Hollywood A-listers. Odenkirk’s first film shot here, called “Nobody,” was followed by a sequel, “Nobody 2”, a good part of which was filmed in Winnipeg Beach – which would have made many of the locations of the film’s scenes very familiar to members of our Jewish community. (Odenkirk also made a third movie in Winnipeg, called “Normal,” which co-starred Henry Winkler.)

Jon Hamm as radio station news director Fred Heckman

But perhaps no production in recent times has received more attention than the eight-part TV series, “American Hostage,” starring Jon Hamm – who vaulted to fame in the TV series “Mad Men” and has gone on to achieve major stardom on both TV and in the movies.
Here’s a brief synopsis of what “American Hostage” is all about:
“Based on the acclaimed first season of the scripted podcast of the same name, American Hostage is a psychological thriller set in the 1970s inspired by the harrowing true story of Fred Heckman, a beloved Indianapolis radio reporter who is thrust into the middle of a life-or-death crisis when hostage-taker Tony Kiritsis demands to be interviewed on his popular radio news program.”

While Hamm was in Winnipeg between last November and February of this year, he made quite a name for himself as someone who was quite eager to explore our city, despite the cold weather he and the rest of the crew encountered. (One time he and two other actors in the series actually drove to Stonewall to take in that town’s recently reopened movie theatre.)
In addition to Hamm, “American Hostage” features many other well-known actors, although I have to admit that, since I don’t watch a lot of television, I have to take the word of other writers, especially writers for the Free Press, whose stories about “American Hostage” I read prior to writing this article, in order to give myself a better understanding of how this particular series came about and just who in it is considered well-known in the film and TV business.
Since what really made “American Hostage” so popular within our own actors’ community was its use of so many Winnipeggers as extras during its filming, I though I’d focus on several members of the Jewish community who have roles in the series.

Harry Nelken as radio station sports reporter “Franco”

Chief among them is Harry Nelken, who has had a prolific career in Winnipeg’s theatre scene, especially as a star in many Winnipeg Jewish Theatre productions. In “American Hostage,” Nelken provides some comic relief to the often heavy tone imbued by the hostage crisis. Nelken plays an over-the-hill sports reporter by the name of Franco (although I don’t recall hearing his name actually called out in the first three episodes I’ve been able to watch as of the time of writing.)

Susanna Portnoy as a nosy neigbhour named “Pearl”

Another local performer, Susanna Portnoy, also has a comic turn as a nosy neighbour named Pearl in Episode 2 of the series.
In addition, in Episode 6 we can expect to see Kevin McIntryre (Cantor at Congregation Etz Chayim) play a role, also his wife Henriette Ivanans.
While there are a number of other individuals listed in the credits who are Jewish, the most prominent among them is Adam Arkin, who not only directed the first four episodes of the series, he plays the role of a lawyer by the name of Ruckelshaus, who serves as the lawyer for the hostage taker, Tony Kiritsis.
The show is being rolled out on a weekly basis on Crave TV. If you have a Crave TV account you have to login on your computer to see all episodes of the show that have been aired to date (four as of this writing).
Or – if you don’t have a Crave TV account, but have USA TV (Channels 104 or 1104 on Bell MTS TV or Channel 425 on Shaw T) as one of the channels in your TV package, you can watch episodes every Friday evening at 10:00 pm – and set your TV box to record all other episodes of the series. However, USA TV will be showing Episode 3 on October 9. If you want to catch the first two episodes of the series, you’ll have to watch them through your computer.

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Why are so many people in Winnipeg afraid to go on the record when it comes to my covering them?

By BERNIE BELLAN I guess that my reputation as someone who is willing to go behind the scenes to try and find out what’s really happening within the Jewish community has led, in many cases, to people – or entire organizations, clamming up when it comes to being willing to talk to me.
You might have read my story about the incident at the Asper Campus, during which one individual, Marty Green, was arrested by members of the Winnipeg Police Service, apparently for “disturbing the peace.”
Despite repeated attempts to elicit an explanation from the WPS how exactly Marty was disturbing the peace, no one in WPS has responded to my requests for information.
Let’s face it: the WPS is in the uncomfortable position of having to be seen as “doing something” about the nervousness that many members of our Jewish community feel about the dangers that come with doing things that we used to take for granted we could do in peace and security, such as attending synagogue, sending kids to Gray Academy, or going into the Asper Campus.
So, when one lone individual seems to be behaving in an odd manner – walking around in front of the campus, holding out leaflets – well, it alarms many individuals. One can assume many of those individuals complained to our Jewish Federation, perhaps to B’nai Brith as well. (I did see Ruth Ashrafi, Regional Director for B’nai Brith Manitoba, talking to two policemen around the time that Marty was arrested.)
But – it’s now part of a pattern of Jewish organizations – and leading individuals within our community – joining the trend to suppress freedom of speech.

In my particular case, I often send emails to individuals asking for comment about a particular issue that has been brought to my attention. Rather than responding with a “no comment” response, lately the trend has been not to issue any response at all.
Further, in two cases within the past month, when speakers have been been made aware that I would be in the audience when they were speaking, I was told beforehand that I was not to report on what they were going to say.
And – here’s a really surprising result when I asked to see a transcript of a particular speaker’s remarks, when that speaker had appeared at an event held in the Berney Theatre on September 2. His name was Jeffrey Herf. His talk was publicly advertised by the Rady JCC as “The History Behind Today’s Headlines – A timely conversation about Israel, history, and the events shaping our world.”
I didn’t attend Herf’s talk, but I was told by someone who did attend that he was quite interesting and he wondered why no one from the Jewish Post had been there to cover the talk. That same person said that the was pretty sure the talk had been recorded.
So, I contacted Laura Marjovsky, Director of Programming at the Rady JCC, on September 15, to ask whether there had been a recording of Herf’s talk and, if there was one, could I get a copy?
Laura responded (on Sept. 16): “I’ll have to get back to you on the recording. I’ll need approval in getting that released.”
I bumped into Laura more recently and asked her whether there’s been any movement on that request, but she said she hadn’t heard anything yet. That’s almost two weeks now, so it doesn’t seem likely that she’s going to get permission to release a recording of Herf’s talk to me.
What’s particularly strange is that you can do a search for Jeffrey Herf and find all sorts of instances where he’s been interviewed and his talks have been covered by various media. Maybe he was worried that if I wrote a report about his talk I wouldn’t be fair or accurate in reporting what he had to say, but I hadn’t told Laura that I wanted to write about Herf’s talk. I just wanted to know whether I could get a recording of his talk. In many instances I’ve transcribed speeches – or interviews, and printed them verbatim.
But, in this case, it appears Jeffrey Herf doesn’t want anything written about his talk here. I wonder why that is?

Then, there were two further instances of speakers asking that their remarks go unreported. Both instances occurred at the Gwen Secter Centre – at Remis Speakers’ luncheons. (By the way, the luncheons have seen record attendances this year. Kudos to Simone Cohen Scott for bringing in such an interesting range of speakers. If you’ve never been to a Remis luncheon but might be interested in having a great – and kosher lunch, followed by hearing an interesting speaker – all the while being able to socialize with friends, you really ought to give it a try.)
The first instance was when Prof. Bryan Schwartz, who is now a rabbi as well as a lawyer and professor, gave a talk about Torah commentaries. Why Bryan didn’t want anything written about something as innocuous as Torah commentaries is beyond me, but that was his prerogative.

The second instance was more frustrating for me. It was when Anita Wortzman, president of the Asper Foundation, was speaking about the Asper Foundation’s philanthropic endeavours. Again, Anita had also asked that there be no reporting of her remarks.
Yet, I found what she had to say quite interesting – and she delivered her remarks so clearly in such an organized manner that I was prompted to ask Anita for an interview, during which, I suggested, she could describe the Asper Foundation’s work. I emailed Anita asking her whether she would be willing to sit for an interview but, rather than responding with a rejection, I received no response at all. So, I emailed her again. Still no response.

And then there’s an interesting situation that had been brought to my attention about a policy of Congregation Etz Chayim’s of which I was not aware.
The policy involves who would be entitled to officiate at a funeral held at one of the three cemeteries managed by CEC: The Rosh Pina, Bnay Abraham, and Hebrew Sick cemeteries.
In June 2025 Rabbi Kliel Rose emailed various rabbis and several other individuals about Etz Chayim’s policy re outside clergy being able to officiate at funerals in any of those cemeteries. The email was titled “Update on CEC Clergy Funeral Policy & New Pre-Approval Process July 25, 2025.”
The wording in the email was somewhat confusing at times. For instance, one line says “All services conducted in the CEC synagogue require the participation of CEC clergy (Rabbi and/or Cantor).” Wouldn’t it stand to reason that services in CEC would require the participation of a member of CEC clergy, I wondered?
Further, it stated that “Requests for outside clergy must be approved by the CEC rabbi.”
But CEC is now without a rabbi, as Rabbi Kliel has left Winnipeg for Ottawa. Who will be able to grant requests for outside clergy in the interim?

Apparently though, what the policy was meant to refer to wasn’t services in the CEC synagogue, it was meant to refer to funerals in CEC administered cemeteries.
As a result, I sent emails to the CEC funeral director, Margot Carr, and CEC Chief Operating Officer Morissa Granove, in which I asked them to clarify CEC’s policy on funerals and outside rabbis being able to officiate at CEC administered cemeteries.
I noted in my email that outside rabbis had previously been allowed to officiate – on their own, at CEC administered cemeteries.
I also noted that I had spoken with individuals who had told me they had wanted a certain rabbi to officiate at their loved one’s funeral, but were told that they had to use one of CEC’s clergy. In certain instances, however, I was also told that when some families absolutely insisted on using an outside rabbi, CEC did relent and allowed them to use an outside rabbi. Thus, one might say CEC’s policy of not allowing outside rabbis to officiate on their own at one of their cemeteries is “honoured more in the breach than the observance,” if a family were to absolutely insist that an outside rabbi be allowed to conduct a funeral at one of CEC’s cemeteries.
The vast majority of funerals in a Jewish cemetery in Winnipeg are conducted at the Shaarey Zedek Cemetery, however, and the Shaarey Zedek has always allowed outside rabbis to officiate at funerals in its cemetery.
CEC’s policy, moreover, was intended to target one particular rabbi in Winnipeg, I further learned. That rabbi received a separate email from Rabbi Kliel informing him that he would no longer be able to officiate, under any circumstances, at a CEC administered cemetery.
As Rabbi Kliel noted in his email, “While we understand some may request your officiation, this will no longer be possible.”
In my emails to Margot Carr and Morissa Granove I suggested that barring a specific rabbi from being able to officiate at funerals in any of their cemeteries would likely prove very painful to many families who would want a particular rabbi to officiate at their loved one’s funeral.
To date I have not received any response to my emails to either Carr or Granove.
So, there you have it: A pattern either of emails going unanswered by the parties to whom they were sent or of being told that I would not be able to report on remarks on particular occasions.
At the very least, one would expect a simple “no comment” in response, but we’re now living in an age when requests from media for information or comment are simply ignored all too often. I guess I have to get used to that.

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Local News

Epic court battle shaping up next week between Etz Chayim Congregation and two former members who are now barred from setting foot in Etz Chayim

By BERNIE BELLAN This story was originally posted August 14, but with the date of the court battle soon approaching we thought it timely to repost it to the top of our website.

Here’s how it read when it was first posted: When we first posted this story Friday morning, August 14 – with a photo of Etz Chayim Synagogue, we received an email from Morissa Granove, COO of Etz Chayim Congregation:

“Hi Bernie.

“This request is not about the article itself but the safety of our shul.  We have been advised not to post the address or photos of our Jewish organizations publicly for some time for security reasons.  Can I please ask that you change the image posted online (and planned for print if needed) and that in this be kept in mind for the future?

“Thank you so much for your understanding,

“Morissa”

We replied:

“Gee Morissa – I’ll do that but maybe you better ask Google to remove any mention of any Winnipeg synagogue because all anyone has to do is do a Google search and they’ll come up with a complete list of Winnipeg synagogues and their addresses – also photos!  Do you want me to contact Google for you? Can’t be too careful, can we?

Now, here’s the story as it was originally posted:

 The date October 7 carries a huge amount of significance for Jews around the world: It was the date that members of Hamas and other terrorist groups launched a murderous attack on innocent Israelis (and members of other nationalities) that resulted in the deaths of more than 1200 people and the abduction of 251 others.
But it is also a date that may have a significance of a different sort come this October 7 when a Winnipeg courtroom will be the scene of a court case in what is shaping up to be a momentous legal battle between Congregation Etz Chayim and two former members of the congregation who have been barred from attending services – or even setting foot inside the building that houses Congregation Etz Chayim.
Before publishing this article I had sent copies to both sides in the dispute – and offered both sides the opportunity to correct any mistakes they might have found in what I had written. I did receive responses from both sides and have incorporated their suggested corrections into what follows.

The two individuals involved at the heart of this dispute are both former longstanding members of Etz Chayim – and before that, Rosh Pina Congregation: Dr. Emet Eviatar (previously known as Hadass), who had been the Torah reader at Etz Chayim for many years, and who had also led Sunday services; and her husband, well known scientist Dr. David Hoult (who played a leading role in the development of MRI technology and was also very active in the congregation). Drs. Eviatar and Hoult have filed suit against CEC over what they claim was the illegal termination of their membership.
In response, however, Congregation Etz Chayim asserts that it was not a question of membership when CEC exercised its right to refuse entry on the advice of the WPS and security experts who were consulted after a deeply concerning letter was received from one of the plaintiffs by the synagogue.
The filings in this particular case are in the hundreds of pages. I spent two recent afternoons at the Law Courts poring over the filings, and photographed pages of what I thought were some of the most relevant issues at hand so that I could quote accurately from those filings.

While the case may seem hugely complicated, given the number of pages of documents that have already been filed, it seems that it boils down to two essential issues: Did CEC violate its own bylaws (or its own constitution, as the case may be, because at the time of the events in question a bylaw which would have governed who might be excluded from belonging to the congregation had not yet been passed) by terminating the memberships of Dr. Emet Eviatar and Dr. David Hoult? The argument advanced by the plaintiffs is not that a congregation cannot decide who can belong to that congregation. Rather, it is an argument that CEC did not properly adhere to its own bylaws in the manner in which it has excluded the plaintiffs from attending – or even setting foot inside Etz Chayim.

But, a second issue in play – and one which is argued forcefully by CEC in one of its briefs is that the argument Emet Eviatar and David Hoult are advancing has no place in the courts in the first place. As is noted in one of the briefs filed on behalf of CEC: “The dispute is, at its core, about the internal governance of a religious congregation. It concerns who may participate in communal worship, who may participate in communal religious life, and how a synagogue governs itself in response to legitimate security concerns. If it is accepted that the dispute was about ideological differences, as alleged by the Applicants, then these are fundamentally religious questions. The court has no jurisdiction to adjudicate such matters, and ought not to intervene.”

How the parties arrived at this situation is a complicated – but very interesting story.
I, myself was first made aware that something unusual was going on between CEC and David Hoult when I received this email from Dr. Hoult on Friday afternoon May 30, 2025, at 12:42 pm:
“Hi Bernie,
“I have just had a pair of police officers at the door telling me that we are now banned from Etz Chayim and if we show up the police will be called, no reasons given. I suspect it was an accumulation of things, including a letter I sent.

“Shabbat shalom,
“David.”

Later that afternoon I received another email, this time from a member of CEC, who forwarded me an email that had been sent to congregation members by Morissa Granove, Chief Operating Officer of CEC. That email had a letter attached, which said, in part:
“On Tuesday, May 27th, we received deeply troubling correspondence from a member of our community. The nature of this communication raised serious concerns about the safety of our congregants and staff. After careful and deliberate consultation with our Board of Directors, Clergy, the Winnipeg Police Service, the Jewish Security Network, and the Secure Community Network (in partnership with the USCJ), and on their recommendations we have made the difficult but necessary decision to terminate the membership of this individual and all members of their household, effective immediately.
“These individuals are no longer permitted on the premises of Congregation Etz Chayim, nor may they participate in any of our synagogue’s programs or activities.”
The letter was signed by Morissa Granove, Chief Operating Officer of CEC, and Allan Cogan, President of CEC.

What the heck was going on? I wondered. So, I emailed Morissa Granove that same afternoon:
“Hi,
“I received an email from David Hoult telling me that he is now banned from the Etz Chayim. I assume Emet Eviatar is also banned too, judging by the way your email is worded.
“I don’t know David at all – other than having received a piece he wrote about Israel and Gaza that I published to my website. I can’t begin to imagine what he might have written, but in the interest of fair reporting and fuller disclosure, can you say anything more about what he wrote in his letter?
“-Bernie Bellan
“Publisher,
“jewishpostandnews.ca
“also Associate Editor,
“The Jewish Post Winnipeg”

But, Morissa Granove did not offer any more information as to what might have been contained in that “troubling correspondence” which was received by CEC.

It was only when I went down to the Law Courts on August 10 that I was actually able to see what was in that “troubling correspondence.”
But, before I get into what was in that particular communication, even more background to this strange case is necessary.
In an email I received from CEC COO Morissa Granove following my having sent her a draft of this article, she wrote: “Congregation Etz Chayim …has never taken action based on political views. Further, CEC argues that other members, congregants, and guests share Dr. Eviatar’s views and yet there has never been an issue with their behaviour and as such, Congregation Etz Chayim has never taken action against anyone, revoked a membership, or refused entry to anyone based on their political stance.” Dr. Eviatar, in her own words, notes that she had already provoked the displeasure of some members of CEC, including staff members, by certain of her behaviours while, according to Morissa Granove, “volunteering in a leadership role and officially representing Congregation Etz Chayim. CEC …is ‘a Zionist organization’.”

Yet, according to CEC, Dr. Eviatar’s family’s attendance at Etz Chayim was never in question – until a letter was received from Dr. Eviatar’s husband.
As is noted in a brief for the plaintiffs, the following is taken from an affidavit given by Emet Eviatar, which might suggest that her membership in CEC had been called into question long before May 2025:
“In July 2024, I co-founded Manitoba Friends of Standing Together, a chapter of the international support network created by Standing Together. Standing Together is a grassroots joint Jewish and Palestinian organization in Israel which was originally created in 2015 to fight for equal rights for Palestinian citizens of Israel. Since the October 7, 2023 attack by Hamas they have pivoted to protesting the war in Gaza.
“On October 6, 2024, I appeared as a guest on the local CBC Radio Weekend Morning Show, together with Mr. Ramsey Zeid, president of the Canadian Palestinian Association of Manitoba to discuss the importance of having local conversations between Jews and Palestinians…
“Later that week, I received a phone call from CEC Rabbi Kliel Rose and Cantor Tracy Kasner. They informed me that I would no longer be allowed to lead Sunday services. The rabbi also suggested that ‘for my own peace of mind’ I might want to consider finding another congregation (that aligns with my views.”)
“On November 4, 2024, I received an unsigned letter from CEC which was provided to me by the then executive director, Jonathan Buchwald…
“While the letter contains various false statements, and is clearly a reference to my having contact with Mr. Zeid and others in the local Palestinian community, the assertion that I was aligned with an ‘ideology which is mutually exclusive and contrary to the existence of the Jewish people and the state of Israel’ was extremely offensive and hurtful to my being an Israeli citizen, having family who live in Israel, and having served in the Israel Defence Forces.”
Later, on March 3, 2025, Emet Eviatar appeared a second time on the CBC morning weekend radio show, again with Mr. Zeid.
In an affidavit taken from Morissa Granove, Ms. Granove explained the CEC’s objection to Emet Eviatar’s publicly associating with certain individuals while officially representing Congregation Etz Chayim (noting that CEC’s objection bore no consequence to Dr.Eviatar’s or her the family’s membership.)
“This public alignment with parties opposed to Israel raised concern within CEC about potential risks surrounding the Synagogue, especially in times of heightened safety risks and awareness of antisemitic vitriol. These concerns were brought to the attention of Dr. Eviatar. She took no action to mitigate these concerns. As a result, she was removed from a volunteer leadership position she held with CEC. CEC took no action regarding either of the Applicants’ ability to attend the Synagogue as congregants.” In the email I received from Morissa Granove in response to a draft of this article, Ms. Granove added: “Still, her family’s membership was never in question.”

But, in May 2025 something happened that led the CEC to take drastic action against Emet Eviatar, David Hoult and the other members of their household. It should be explained that, according to an affidavit taken from Morissa Granove, who had stepped into the role of Chief Operations Officer of CEC in January 2025, in May 2025 CEC announced it would be adding new security measures, based on a “site security assessment from the Winnipeg Police Service. Officer Constable Justin Remillard (who) attended the Synagogue and provided guidance on improving security.
“Among other things, he advised:
“a) access to the Synagogue should be controlled;
“b) registration and entry lists should be used for programs and services at the Synagogue;”

On May 5, 2025 CEC held its Annual General Meeting. According to an affidavit taken from Ms. Granove, “During discussion relating to security protocols…David Hoult expressed opposition to security procedures such as locked doors at the Synagogue, registration requirements, and screening of visitors.”

The following is taken from an affidavit taken from Ms. Granove: “On May 22, 2025, CEC received a letter from Dr. Hoult. The most significant concern with the letter was that it stated:
‘If, G-d forbid, I wanted to attack the shul on Shabbat morning it would be trivial. A stolen motorbike, onto the lawn, Kalashnikov to shatter the windows, gun down the congregation, drive away, ditch the bike, gun, mask and clothes…” (Emphasis added)
The same affidavit states that, “In that correspondence, he again expressed opposition to security measures and described them as ‘hysteria,’ ‘paranoia,’ and ‘psychologically stupid.’ “

According to an affidavit taken from David Hoult, “My wife and I received no direct communication from CEC advising of the termination of our membership until a cheque with no accompanying letter was received in the mail on June 9, 2025.”
In an email received from Morissa Granove after I sent her a draft of this story she asked that this sentence be inserted: “Congregation Etz Chayim was interviewed extensively by the WPS before going to the home of Dr. Hoult for the service call and had all of the details which were required in order to qualify their actions.”

On September 16, 2025, Hadass (Emet) Eviatar and David Hoult filed an application in Court of King’s Bench to have the termination of their membership declared “null and void,” also seeking an “order to comply with bye-laws” (of the CEC).

In response, CEC asserts that it “has never terminated the Applicants’ membership. Rather the applicants were advised they were no longer permitted to attend the synagogue.” Morissa Granove asked that this be added: CEC “exercised its right to refuse entry on the advice of the WPS and security experts.’
Did it boil down to semantics? I wondered. CEC was saying that it hadn’t “terminated the Applicants’ membership,” yet it returned the cheque they had sent in to pay for renewal of their membership.
However, if it is the CEC’s position that, based on the plaintiffs’ claims as written, this matter is not one that should even be considered by the courts – as is noted at the beginning of this article, then arguments over whether CEC abided by its own bylaws would be moot.
Yet, if the courts might be willing to consider the issue whether CEC did not properly follow its own rules – as set out in its bylaws, then the Eviatar-Hoult case becomes more compelling.
For instance, the issue whether CEC “terminated” the memberships of Dr. Eviatar and Dr. Hoult might take on added importance.
As is noted in a brief for the plaintiffs, the letter sent out by Morissa Granove to members of CEC on May 30, 2025 states quite clearly that “We have made the difficult but necessary decision to terminate the memberships of this individual (Dr. Hoult) and all members of their household effective immediately.”
In this case the plaintiffs (Drs. Eviatar and Hoult) are arguing the nowhere within CEC’s governing constitution (which was adopted in 2014) were there “provisions for the termination of membership.” Therefore, their argument goes, “CEC had no authority to terminate their membership.”
Morissa Granove asked that this be added: “The defendant (CEC), however, argues that the CEC’s governing constitution says that “directors ‘may pass by-laws’ regulating, among other things, ‘the suspension and termination of membership by the corporation and by a member.’ The word ‘may’ is permissive.”
“Thus, CEC is arguing, therefore, that it had no obligation to actually pass a by-law governing the termination of a membership.”

As it was, the by-law was never voted upon, as, according to an affidavit given by Dr. Eviatar, CEC leadership “had not complied with the correct procedure, including giving proper notice.,
However, in her email to me Morissa Granove wrote that “the very same bylaw was passed at a Special General Meeting of the members when Congregation Etz Chayim and its lawyers provided clarity on the proposed changes, which was requested by the members at the conclusion of the AGM to clear up any issue or confusion.”
Further, the letter to CEC members that was sent on May 30, 2025, which said that “These individuals (i.e., Dr. Hoult and any members of his family) are no longer permitted on the premises of Congregation Etz Chayim, nor may they participate in any of our synagogue’s programs or activities” was signed only by the COO and President of CEC.

Whether or not CEC followed proper procedure in whatever happened to Dr. Hoult, Dr. Eviatar, and their other family members will be up to the courts to decide.
But, there is a larger issue at hand. Are there are any rules that might govern how a private organization such as a synagogue should govern itself? And, perhaps even more important, can the courts intervene at all in such a situation?
This case is shaping up to have some fascinating implications.

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