Local News
At Limmud: New University of Manitoba president Michael Benarroch speaks of the challenges presented by stepping into his role in midst of a pandemic
By BERNIE BELLAN While there were a great many interesting speakers at this year’s Limmud, the one speaker to whom I was looking most forward to hearing was Michael Benarroch, the new president of the University of Manitoba.
Since returning to Winnipeg last summer after having served as the provost and vice-president of Ryerson University in Toronto since the fall of 2017, Benarroch was thrust headlong into having to take over his position in the midst of a pandemic.
Naturally, there haven’t been many opportunities to see and hear Benarroch, nor to interview him since he returned to Winnipeg, so his appearing at Limmud allowed Limmud participants the chance to hear directly from a man whose career has seen him move steadily up the academic administration ladder in the past 30 years.
At times wistful – in speaking of his family’s having come here from Morocco, at other times contemplative, in discussing how important it is to include Indigenous students and faculty in reshaping the U of M, Benarroch told a story – of how he’s arrived at his present situation in life and what his goals are looking forward.
“My parents never had the opportunity to go to university,” Benarroch explained at the outset of his presentation.
“My family came to Winnipeg (from Morocco) because my mother’s brother was in Winnipeg. My father was a teacher, but when he came to Winnipeg he found a job as a shochet,” Benarroch said.
It was while he was an undergrad at the University of Winnipeg that Benarroch said he developed a “passion for economics”. He later went on to acquire a PhD in Economics from Carleton University – in 1992.
Upon completing his PhD Benarroch returned to the University of Winnipeg. At the time, he explained during his presentation, Lloyd Axworthy was President of the University of Winnipeg and Axworthy asked Benarroch whether the university should have a business school?
“I designed a vision,” Benarroch said, and eventually he became dean of the new Faculty of Business and Economics.
After 19 years at the U of W, Benarroch said he “interviewed for Dean at the Asper School of Business” at the University of Manitoba, which he became in 2011.
“The University of Manitoba is one of 50 research intensive universities in Canada,” Benarroch noted – something that was to prove a factor in his wanting to return here this past year.
In 2017, Benarroch became Provost and Vice-President Academic at Ryerson University.
For Benarroch, Ryerson was a good fit, he explained, because “it had a real focus on community engagement and entrepreneurship.”
As for moving to Toronto, Benarroch admitted that he and his wife, Kim (Bailey), “missed Winnipeg a lot – especially Kim.” Still, by the time they left Toronto this past summer, both their sons (Keenan and Aden) had also moved to Toronto, so returning to Winnipeg was a bit of a mixed blessing for Michael and Kim.
The story how Benarroch came to be president of the University of Manitoba is an interesting one.
When he applied for the position – in 2019, “I didn’t even tell my family I was applying,” he said. And, when he came to Winnipeg to interview for the position, he didn’t even tell his brothers he was here. (Al Benarroch is Executive Director of Jewish Child and Family Service, while Yosef Benarroch is Rabbi of the Adas Yeshurun Herzlia Congregation, although he also lives part of the year in Israel – during normal times. A fourth brother, Yamin, who is also a rabbi, lives in Vancouver).
Ultimately, Benarroch “was offered the position of president (of the U of M) in 2019,” he said, “then Covid hit and turned everything topsy turvy.”
At that point, the host of this particular Limmud session, Faye Rosenberg Cohen, asked Benarroch: “Did you plan out the career part?”
Benarroch responded: “I knew the presidency at the University of Manitoba was coming up. I kept my eye on it, but I thought that (moving to Toronto) was going to be my last move.
“There had to be a good reason for me to move from one institution to another.
“During my time at the Asper School I thought though that I really meshed well with the atmosphere at the University of Manitoba.”
As for Ryerson, Benarroch noted that the school began as a polytechnic institute and it still carries a very large imprint as a technical training school even though it is now a university.
“Ninety-five percent of the students have an experiential background – serving in apprenticeships” and work programs, while attending classes, Benarroch explained.
Part of Benarroch’s mandate while he was at Ryerson, he noted, was to “rebuild the faculty.”
“We went from 700 to over 900 in the three years I was there,” Benarroch stated.
“We hired quite a few younger academics who brought a lot of energy with them,” he added.
Another major change that Benarroch said he helped to foster was a concerted effort to hire more Indigenous instructors.
“When I arrived there were only six Indigenous professors at Ryerson,” he observed.
“Working with students and elders we launched a reconciliation process. We made Ryerson a place where Indigenous people would feel welcome,” including by “hiring 20 new Indigenous staff,” Benarroch said.
“We also brought in a fair bit of scholarship money for Indigenous students,” he added.
Yet, when the opportunity to take over as president of the University of Manitoba presented itself, Benarroch noted, that despite his having fit in well at Ryerson, he said that “you never want to leave a job, but if I hadn’t taken that opportunity I don’t think it would have come up again.”
Rosenberg Cohen asked Benarroch “How has being a religious Jew worked for you, first as a professor, then as an administrator?”
Benarroch replied: “As a prof, it was great. As an observant Jew I was always able to schedule my time so as to be able to observe Shabbat.”
Benarroch mentioned that one of the two sabbatical years he took as a professor was at the University of Haifa, which was of particular significance for him – being able to spend the year in Israel.
However, upon becoming an administrator, Benarroch suggested, “my schedule was not mine as much as it was in the past…At Ryerson, the president was an observant Muslim, so I always I had to make sure I was on campus on Fridays while he was attending prayers.”
Further, Benarroch noted, while the advent of Zoom during the pandemic has certainly enabled teaching and meetings to carry on, Zoom has, in fact, “made it harder to remain Shabbat observant.”
Prior to the pandemic, he explained, if he had a meeting or conference to attend – even on a Shabbat, “I would be staying in a hotel and I could attend a meeting – without taking any notes.”
Now, it’s impossible to participate in a Zoom session during Shabbat, he said – and since the workday seems to have expanded to include almost any hour of the day, Benarroch admitted that, as much as technology has allowed meetings to be held relatively easily, it has presented problems for him having to decide between his obligations as a university president and his religious observance.
As for some of the other more noticeable effects that the pandemic has had on his role as president at the U of M, Benarroch said: “I have four staff members in my office; I’ve seen one of them in person.”
Benarroch told the Limmud audience that, prior to assuming his new role, he read a book offering advice on “how to be a university president”.
(Rosenberg Cohen asked the question that was probably on everyone else’s minds at that point: Are there enough people in the world who would be in the position that they were interested in becoming a university president that it would be worth it to write a book about that subject?)
In any event, Benarroch said that this particular book did offer two really good pieces of advice:
1. Don’t make a major decision during your first six months in the new position;
and 2. Go out and meet as many people as you can off the bat.
(Obviously, the second piece of advice was thrown out the window when Benarroch returned to Winnipeg during the pandemic.)
In terms of how the pandemic will change the way university courses are taught even following the pandemic, Benarroch suggested that what is likely to occur is that professors will teach classes where some students attend in person while other students will take those same classes online.
“We’re also looking to have classes for Indigenous students up north” offered online, following on the success of Zoom teaching during the pandemic, he suggested.
While “there has been a lot of resistance to teaching online among academics,” Benarroch admitted, “students have been adapting.”
With reference to how many students are actually enrolled at the university this academic year, Benarroch observed that, while there are “fewer first year students at the University of Manitoba, there have been more students return for second, third, and fourth year” than in previous years.
“Enrolment is definitely up,” Benarroch said, “and we expect to see the majority of students return again in the fall.”
Rosenberg Cohen asked: “If I were a parent, thinking of spending money to send my child to a university somewhere, why would I spend all that money when they can take their classes online?”
Benarroch’s response was that, while virtual classes will certainly be a major part of whatever format universities eventually evolve into becoming, there is going to be a greater emphasis on “more participation, more research, more experiential. There are going to be more opportunities outside the classroom”, but they are going to be in person, not online.
As an example, Benarroch said he’s planning on creating a “student start-up zone”, in which students will start their own businesses.”
“It’s better to fail at a business when you’re 23 than when you’re 55,” Benarroch observed.
Rosenberg Cohen asked: “What are your hopes and dreams?”
Benarroch said, “Here at the University of Manitoba we have a tremendous testing capacity. Winnipeg could become a testing centre for vaccines,” for instance he suggested.
Continuing on the thread of what his hopes and dreams are, Benarroch said: “I’d like to see the University of Manitoba become a global leader in certain areas.
“I’d like to see the university become a racist-free zone.” (He noted that the previous president of the U of M, David Barnard, “had launched a task force on Equality, Diversity, and Integration.)
“We know we can’t stamp out racism, on campus,” Benarroch observed. “The question is how to deal with it.”
Someone in the Zoom audience wondered how one can maintain a balance between stamping out racism while still allowing free speech?
“We’re still a university. We are going to have debate and disagreement,” Benarroch said in response.
Someone else wondered “How does the university compensate for lab work that can’t get done?
Benarroch answered that “We allow 20 percent capacity in some spaces…We’ve also developed a way to hold some of the labs virtually.”
As well, Benarroch said that, for ten days in January, students in the Faculties of Nursing, Science, Architecture, Engineering, and Agriculture, were allowed back on to campus” to conduct lab work – under strict Covid protocols.
I asked a question along these lines (although the names of questioners were not given): Professors are having to spend more time than ever before finding funding for their programs. With the emphasis on practical, results-oriented programs, where will that leave programs that don’t necessarily have practical applications? (My question was not worded precisely that way, but it was along those general lines.)
Benarroch’s response was that “the university brings in just under $200 million a year in research money – the vast majority of which comes from the federal government.”
He added that he has two goals as far as where the money for research goes: to allow students who were doing research prior to Covid to continue doing that work; and to obtain additional money to keep university labs running.
Benarroch also noted that there is now a “massive reinvestment in science in the US. We have to remain competitive in how we pay faculty and how we keep up our labs.”
It seems quite evident, therefore, that Michael Benarroch is going to be preoccupied with finding ever new sources of funding for the university, while trying to retain whatever sources have been in place until now.
It seemed fitting, therefore, that one of his final observations was that “one of my mandates as president is to speak to government”.
Still, lost in all the discussion about funding and research was any reference to the less practical aspects of a university education. Of course, that’s a subject that’s been debated for a very long time. I just wonder where faculties such as Arts are going to end up with the even greater emphasis on “research” oriented programs.
Local News
This man – Michael Kalo – has been defaming prominent Winnipeggers online for years, but now he’s getting a taste of his own medicine
By BERNIE BELLAN (Posted May 3, updated May 8)) There’s a particularly ugly side that often comes with being in the public eye – and that’s being on the receiving end of some of the most vile and awful comments, often threats – sometimes on social media, sometimes in emails, and sometimes on websites.
For years now many prominent Winnipeggers (almost all of them Jewish) have had to endure just that kind of vicious attack from someone by the name of Michael Kalo. But how do you fight back against someone who writes some of the most awful things – and then sends them out to various members of the media (including me), all the while hiding behind a series of aliases? There’s no point in suing him for defamation; he’s penniless. (The police have seized his computer in the past and are well aware of him, but the individuals whom he has defamed have always been reluctant to have the Crown press charges, thinking that it will only draw more attention to him – which is what he seems to want.)
But I’m different – and I’ve finally had enough of his crap.
I just received another email from Michael Kalo. This time I told him I was going to post his email and my response – but I was going to reveal his true name. (He sent the email under the name “Harvey Weinstein”.)
It must be particularly embarrassing for Michael’s two very accomplished daughters, Stephanie Kalo and Emily Kalo, to have people realize who their father is.
I’m also posting a video that was sent to me that shows Kalo engaging in an argument with someone (and the identity of that person was not revealed to me by the person who sent me the video.) In it you can hear Michael explain why he’s consistently called Ben Carr a “kike”, “a spoiled Jew boy,” along with some other choice epithets. (Kalo has sent out numerous emails defaming Ben Carr using the name “Mohammed Greenberg” as the sender.)
First, here’s the email in which Kalo goes after Jacob Brodovsky, who recently left his post as co-executive director of BB Camp following a storm of controversy (about which you can read elsewhere on this site):
Dear Bernie:
Jacob Brodovsky is a vile and entitled (self-hating) JEW BOY Bastard, who should keep his long nose away of the private affairs of a foreign sovereign and free country he knows nothing about.
We hear that him and his JAP wife Lexi are expecting a baby.
We respectfully believe that if a boy, they should name him Adolf, and that in a case of a girl, her name should be Eva.
In terms of these scums’ future employment, we suggest that they now look into finding, for a change, a real job.
Perhaps by moving to Gaza and starting a summer (training) camp for (young) terrorists.
Indeed, the BB Camp Board reached the right decision as to these two haters of Israel, the brave and only Jewish state.
Having said this, we wonder why the two were hired (and overpaid) at the first place, and more importantly why it took that long to finally terminate their positions.
We thank you for your ongoing attention to this matter, in our view second only to the scandal of (former Mayor) Sam Katz stealing millions of dollars from the City’s hard working taxpayers and its Police force without, to this day, facing any consequences (other than having to move from Tuxedo to Headingly…lol).
Go (IDF’s) Jets Go!
Harvey W.
And here’s how I responded to Kalo:
You know what I’m going to do Michael. I’m going to print your letter on my website – but I’m going to say that it was sent by someone named Michael Kalo, who has been defaming various Winnipeg Jews for years. That way it will have the opposite effect of what you’re intending. I’m also going to post the video in which you call Ben Carr (and the person filming the video) a kike.) And if you want to come after me the way you’ve been going after anyone and everyone who provokes your ire, go right ahead. (You seem to have a real hate on for successful Winnipeg Jews. Is it because you’re such a failure in life yourself?) And I’m going to bcc this email to some of the people you’ve been defaming so that they can see how much of a fool you”ve been making of yourself for years.
-Bernie
And here’s the video of Michael (who is apparently walking away with a Ben Carr sign tucked under his arm):
Local News
Rabbi Matthew Leibl’s Friday afternoon service at Simkin Centre has grown in popularity
By BERNIE BELLAN In November 2023 I published a story in The Jewish Post & News about the first-ever Friday afternoon “Erev Shabbat” service at the Simkin Centre, which was held October 27, 2023.
It was an opportunity for me to see how much of an impact the newly spiritual care aide at the Simkin Centre, Rabbi Matthew Leibl, was having on residents. But that was in 2023 – only 2 years after the Simkin Centre had emerged from the most harrowing period in its history.
As you may recall, when Covid 19 began to spread in early 2020, it was personal care homes across Canada that were hit hardest – and the Simkin Centre was not spared the ravages of Covid. A total of 11 residents passed away at the Centre in 2020 and 2021.
Another result of the Covid epidemic was that the number of non-Jewish residents at the Simkin Centre jumped by quite a large number during the epidemic. Here are some figures showing how many more non-Jewish residents moved into the home by 2021 than had been there previously:
2017 – 67 non-Jewish or 33.5%
2018 – 63 non-Jewish or 31.5%
2019 – 71 non-Jewish or 35.5%
2020 – 61 non-Jewish or 30.5%
2021 – 86 non-Jewish or 43.0%
According to Laurie Cerqueti, CEO at the Simkin Centre, as of May 2, 2025, 44% of the residents are non-Jewish while 56% are Jewish.
Rabbi Leibl had been hired in the spring of 2023. His hiring was enabled by a grant from the Jewish Foundation of Manitoba. Here is how the Foundation explained what its purpose was in making a grant to the Simkin Centre for the hiring of a full-time spiritual care aide:
“I know how important spiritual care is in our type of setting,” said Laurie Cerqueti, Simkin Centre CEO. “For our residents, our families, and our community.”
Since she took over the CEO role, Laurie’s thoughts had been directed to ‘How can we serve our people even more than we are now? How can we make this bigger and better?’
This sparked the idea that someone should be brought in to look at what they were doing regarding spiritual care to see where gaps and opportunities lay to develop the program.
The Simkin Centre hired Rabbi Matthew Leibl as the person to fill the role, someone Cerqueti thought would be a perfect fit f for what they’were hoping to do.
“As I spoke with Matthew about this opportunity, we see it as an opportunity to make a significant difference for the residents and their families,” said Cerqueti.
This interaction with the Simkin Centre is not Rabbi Leibl’s first. He has been involved with the Simkin Centre for over 15 years, first working there at age 21. That year, he did concerts three times per week for the residents.
“I found that the music and performing was an incredible way to connect with the people there,” said Rabbi Leibl.
He recalled a story from that time frame where he was performing Oseh Shalom, and one resident who had been, to that point, without her memory and less present, began to mouth the words along with him. The song helped her break through what she had been dealing with.
“That moment was truly a game changer for me. I’m so excited to be able to give back to a place that helped people in my own family and was a great place for me while I was figuring out my way many years ago,” said Rabbi Leibl.
“Simkin is such a special place, and what they’re doing there is awesome.”
In the year and a half since I was present at Rabbi Leibl’s first ever Friday afternoon service at the Simkin Centre much has changed. Most of the new residents who have moved into the centre have, once again, been Jewish. But, in recognition of how many residents are not Jewish the centre has begun offering services for different denominations as well. The May calendar of events lists a Catholic Mass, an Anglican service, a Christian Bible Study, and a Hymnsing.
But it was Rabbi Leibl’s Erev Shabbat service I was interested in seeing again – some 18 months after the first service he had conducted, to see whether it had changed – and how many residents came to watch.
The atrium of the centre was filled with residents on Friday, April 26 – quite a few more than that October 2023 service. The increased number of attendees was also a reflection of how many more of the centre’s residents, once again, are Jewish. (In case you weren’t aware, if there’s a vacant unit at the Simkin Centre and someone who is Jewish is on the wait list to gain admission into the centre, that individual will be given first crack at moving into the centre. I had been told by Laurie Cerqueti that the 14 most recent new residents in the centre were all Jewish.)
There was one other aspect to Rabbi Leibl’s service which was brought to my attention. One of the residents at the Simkin Centre, Carol Manishen, also has a son living in a Shalom Residence: Josh Manishen. When Carol’s husband, Wayne, saw me at that Friday service he told me that he often comes early with Josh – before the start of the regular service at 4:00 pm, and Josh sings various Hebrew prayers, accompanied by Rabbi Leibl on the keyboard. To watch a video of Josh singing, click here:
Two more things to add though: First, Rabbi Leibl is now a regular participant on a podcast that is put on by CJN (what used to be known as the Canadian Jewish News) called “Not In Heaven.” You can find it simply by Googling CJN and scrolling down under the Podcasts link.
Also, since Rabbi Leibl and I go a long way back – and we both have a fond taste for sarcasm, he singled me out from among the audience and said to everyone there: “We’ve even got a reporter from the Jewish Post here.”
I couldn’t help but respond – in my usual facetious manner, that I was there to do an exposé.
To which, Rabbi Leibl retorted: “You can call it “Sex, Drugs, and Candlesticks.” Hmm, I wonder how much more there is about the Simkin Centre that I haven’t learned yet?
Local News
Well, that didn’t take long…BB Camp Board announces hiring of two new co-directors
(Posted April 27) In a span of a little more than two weeks, BB Camp has gone from parting ways with one of its co-executive directors, Jacob Brodovsky, to the hiring of two new co-directors. (We have been attempting to ascertain the status of Lexi Yurman, who was also camp co-executive director with Jacob – who also happened to be her husband, and who is now on maternity leave. Would she be entitled to return as co-executive director once her maternity leave is up, we wonder?)
The BB Camp board released a press release announcing the new hires at 12:42 pm today. Interestingly, there is no mention whether the positions that are to be filled by the two individuals, Sarah Gould and Aliza Millo, are to be permanent or temporary. Also, the two women are referred to as co-camp directors, not co-executive directors. Is there any significance to that, we wonder? Since no one from the BB Camp board has responded to any questions we have posed to them since this whole mess began, we won’t hold our breath waiting for answers to any of the questions we’ve just asked here either.
Here is the complete text of the BB Camp board announcement:
Dear BB Camp Community,
On behalf of the Board, we wanted to let you know that we acknowledge that the last week has caused much stress and uncertainty. We have felt it too and have been working very hard to ensure that the summer season unfolds as we all expect.
We are extremely excited to share with you that our 2025 summer senior Camp leadership team is now in place!
Please give a BB Camp W-E-L-C-O-M-E to Sarah Gould and Aliza Millo!
Sarah Gould: co-Camp Director (Wilderness and Operations)
Sarah is returning to BB Camp as co-Camp Director (Wilderness and Operations). Sarah’s history with BB Camp stretches back decades. She spent many formative summers on Town Island—as a camper, counselor, canoe instructor, and AC out-tripper. After BB, she took her skills to Camp Hatikvah in BC, where she helped develop and expand their wilderness and out-tripping program. Sarah has an intimate knowledge of wilderness programming, the importance of integrating Jewish values into outdoor education, and as camp alumni and a current camp parent, has a clear understanding of our community’s interests and hopes for BB Camp’s future.
Sarah has been fortunate to spend every summer of her life at Lake of the Woods. Her family cottage is on Channel Island, directly across from Town Island. She has strong ties to our Lake of the Woods neighbours and an ability to navigate the lake and Kenora. Sarah also was a key volunteer on the Friends of Town Island campaign, through which Camp was able to successfully partner with the Nature Conservancy of Canada to have Town Island designated as a protected area—ensuring its legacy for generations to come.
Professionally, Sarah has years of experience in education, research, and community organizing. She taught anthropology and international development at Trent and the University of Toronto and now works as a researcher and consultant in health studies. In her community life, she leads a neighborhood organization in Toronto, where she has spearheaded grassroots initiatives—from building a skating rink to coordinating with city officials and local stakeholders on community improvement projects. Sarah is also active in the Jewish community, including advocacy for Israel and supporting students facing antisemitism on campus.
Sarah is excited to be returning to Town Island and the BB Camp family for an amazing summer of 2025.
Aliza Millo: co-Camp Director (Programs)
Aliza’s history with BB Camp dates back decades as well. She spent many years at Camp as a camper, counselor, section head, and LTP Coordinator. After Camp, Aliza pursued a career she felt was most adjacent to working at Camp and transitioned into the classroom. She moved to Toronto to pursue her education degree, where she also completed a Jewish Education Certificate at York University.
For the next seven years, Aliza taught at the Toronto Heschel School, a school dedicated to tikkun olam and social justice, with a particular focus on environmental stewardship and sustainability. While there, Aliza taught grades three through seven, with a greater focus on the upper elementary years, teaching Judaics, Hebrew, and General Studies in a pluralistic, integrated setting.
After 10 years in Toronto, Aliza was happy to move back home to Winnipeg. Aliza met her future husband David Azuelos at BB Camp many years ago; to get a sense of how important BB Camp is to Aliza, she had her wedding on Town Island. Since her return to Winnipeg, Aliza has worked at St. John’s-Ravenscourt School, teaching Grade 4, cultivating an environmental leadership team at the Junior School level, and even bringing groups of Grade 4 and 5 students to Town Island for Outdoor Ed. Aliza has also helped organize and fundraise for Kendra’s Walk, a student-led initiative at SJR supporting teens living with cancer.
Aliza’s true passion lies in building community, whether in the classroom or at Camp. Since her time as a camper, she has enjoyed returning to the island for Work Weekend, volunteering in the kitchen, and serving on the Alumni Committee ahead of the 70th Alumni Weekend. She is most passionate when working with children and believes in strong communication with parents to build meaningful and supportive relationships. Having worked in a kindergarten to Grade 12 school setting, she has enjoyed maintaining lifelong relationships with students and families in the community.
Aliza is excited to be bringing her two boys, Judah and Dubie, to Camp. She is thrilled to be returning in this position — working with and mentoring the already incredible staff, and helping to foster deep and meaningful connections to Jewish values, traditions, and culture. Aliza looks forward to helping build a strong, nurturing community where every camper feels a sense of comfort, belonging, and pride in who they are — and in being a BB Camp camper.
***
The Camp Board of Directors is grateful that Sarah and Aliza, two lifelong BB Campers who together have an exceptional skill set, will be leading our community’s beloved Camp this summer. We are looking forward to another great Camp summer, full of amazing Camp memories. We will be reaching out directly to Camp families with more information. Please bear with us as our new leadership team gets up to speed and starts working with our current staff. Reach us at info@bbcamp.ca
Ed.note: Here’s a comment we received through our “contact us” link: (Readers of this website should be aware that it is run independently of The Jewish Post newspaper. I will forward any comments sent to me that are meant to be letters to the editor of the paper, but the proper email address for the paper is contact@thejewishpost.ca)
Letter to the Editor re BB Camp
I am a former member of the Board of BB Camp and served as Board Chair for a number of years. I am disgusted in the manner in which the current Board responded to to the public assassination of its Executive Director by dishonest Israeli extremists in our community. I am equally disgusted that what should have been a private internal human resource issue at the Camp was made public by the Board through its e-mails to the community which essentially made it impossible for the Executive Director to continue in his position and which likely tarnished his reputation. All I can say that is that I hope Jacob received a large monetary settlement from BB Camp.
-Irwin Corobow
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