Local News
Jews from Ukraine who have settled in Winnipeg offer conflicting opinions about the Russian invasion
By BERNIE BELLAN With the war in Ukraine still raging, its effects are being felt especially closely by individuals who have relatives or friends in that country.
Such is the case with several newer members of our own Jewish community in Winnipeg, who either came to Winnipeg directly from Ukraine, or who emigrated first to Israel, then to Winnipeg.
Wanting to learn more about the attitudes of former Ukrainians who are now members of our Jewish community here, I contacted Dalia Szpiro, who is the GrowWinnipeg Director at the Jewish Federation of Winnipeg, to inquire whether she could put me in touch with one or more of those individuals.
Subsequently, I spoke with two men of Jewish Ukrainian origin on Tuesday, March 22. The first, Alexey Guider, was quite willing for me to use his name, but the second individual asked me not to mention his name. The reason for that, as you’ll see if you read on, is that he was not totally unsympathetic to the view that Russian-speaking Ukrainians would not be opposed to seeing a part of Ukraine transferred to Russian control. He was worried that taking a position that might not be all that popular here was something that he didn’t want to lead to potential backlash against him or his family.
My primary purpose in speaking with both men was to try and find out what they are hearing from friends and relatives still in Ukraine. Further, I wondered what their attitudes were toward the war that is currently going on in Ukraine.
Alexey Guider explained that he and his wife (from whom he is now separated) came to Winnipeg 11 years ago, directly from Kiev, which is where he and his wife lived for 10 years before emigrating to Winnipeg. He noted that they were both planning on making aliyah to Israel, but they “decided to come to Canada instead.” Their two children were both born in Winnipeg, Alexey noted.
Alexey said that he’s a business analyst working at New Flyer Industries. He added that he has “a small business as well.”
I asked Alexey how many family members he still has in Ukraine?
His parents were living there until quite recently, he answered – in a town close to Kiev called Irpin . His “siblings live in Israel,” Alexey said.
I asked whether Irpin was under attack?
“I’m not sure at the moment,” Alexey answered. “It was captured, liberated, and captured again,” he said. “I’m not 100% sure what’s going on right now –but it’s not suitable for life at the moment.”
“Have you been in touch with your parents?” I asked.
Alexey explained that his parents were able to leave Ukraine shortly before Russia invaded, and go to Germany, where his grandfather had been living. “They went there in the middle of February – just before he died,” Alexey said. “They were able to say good bye – and then the war started…they were lucky.”
Alexey added that his mother-in-law is still in Ukraine – in the western part. “There’s no heavy fighting there,” he noted, “although at least twice a day there’s an air raid alert – so she has to run for safety.”
The rest of Alexey’s family, other than his siblings in Israel, live in other parts of Europe, he said.
“But what about your friends?” I asked. “You must still have many friends who remained in Ukraine?”
“Yes, I have lots of friends,” Alexey said. “Some of them escaped before the war. Some of them went to Poland. I have one friend who went to Spain with her kid. She was able to get her parents there too. I talk to her every day. She’s very anxious. Her husband is still in Ukraine. A man can’t leave Ukraine. “ (Men between the ages of 18-65 are not allowed to leave and must report for military duty.)
Alexey mentioned that he and his parents had been very involved with the Jewish community in Ukraine. His father, he said, was director of a Reform congregation in that country, while his mother was a program coordinator for the congregation.
Even though they’re in Germany now, “they have been helping members of the Jewish community to get out of Ukraine to Poland…not just Jewish people,” Alexey added.
I said to Alexey that I had read that most Ukrainian Jews who are able to leave that country prefer to go to Germany, rather than Israel.
“People are hesitant to go to Israel because it’s a similar situation there (as Ukraine),” he suggested. “There was shelling all over Israel.”
Something that Alexey told me though which took me somewhat by surprise was when he said that “most people who have left Ukraine (and who are still leaving) “are planning on returning when the war’s over.”
Yet, notwithstanding the desire of most Ukrainians who have left the country to be able to return home – and apparently the preference of most Jews who have left to move to Germany, I wondered whether Ukrainians would be eager to come to Canada if they were offered the opportunity?
The Canadian government has taken steps to expedite the immigration of Ukrainian refugees to this country, including dropping the normal visa requirement and allowing Ukrainians to obtain work permits immediately upon their arrival, although there will be a two-year maximum stay permitted for anyone coming here under the relaxation of the normal rules.
As a result, Alexey told me that he is in the process of bringing his parents here under the new provisions. They have family in Germany, he said, but this will be an opportunity for them to see their grandchildren again, so of course they’re eager to come, he explained.
In addition to his parents, Alexey will also be hosting two other friends who will be arriving within the next few weeks, he told me. “I’m going to have a full house,” he said.
He added that many Manitobans of Ukrainian heritage have been offering to take in refugees from Ukraine. (He said there’s been a Facebook group created for that specific purpose with a great many members already.)
Alexey added though that it would be great if the Jewish Federation here were to take the initiative and ask members of the Jewish community to volunteer to take in Jewish (and non-Jewish) refugees from Ukraine. I told him that I’d asked representatives of the Federation whether that is an initiative they will undertake and that I hoped the Federation would respond to my inquiry.
I did receive a response from Adam Levy, the Federation’s Public & Community Relations Director, to my query when I asked whether the Federation might want to ask members of the Jewish community whether they’d be prepared to take in refugees from Ukraine.
Here is what Adam wrote on March 25: “At this time, we are not making such an ask of the community, but continue to re-assess the situation on a daily basis as needs change and evolve. If community members wish to take Ukrainian newcomers into their homes, they can certainly do that.
“This is why we have settlement services in our community. Besides finding housing, there are many other vital parts to living in Canada that these services help to facilitate. We hope that they will utilize these resources so that their needs will be met and their transition to life in Canada will be as painless as possible.”
While Alexey Guider comes from Kiev, which is in the western part of Ukraine, and which is Western oriented in terms of its culture and politics, other Ukrainian Jews, especially those in the eastern part of the country, might have stronger connections to Russia.
Such was the case with Michael (not his real name), who told me he left Ukraine when he was 10, at which point his family moved to Israel for 20 years. He and his wife came to Winnipeg with their three-month-old baby eight years ago. (He wanted to thank the Jewish Federation for its help in bringing him and his family here. He specifically cited Dalia Szpiro’s assistance in that regard.)
Michael works in IT, having been involved in projects for companies both inside and outside Manitoba, he said.
When I asked Michael what part of Ukraine he came from, he said it was a town called Petrovsk, which is situated in the province of Luhansk Oblast. That area of Ukraine has been the scene of fighting between pro-Russian separatists and Ukrainian forces for the past eight years and, during Russia’s recent invasion it was taken over completely by Russian forces during the very first days of the invasion.
Two years ago, Michael noted, he was able to bring his parents and grandparents as well to Winnipeg, under a Federal sponsorship program. But, he added, “I still have a bunch of family in Ukraine.”
He said that another grandfather and an uncle of his are in Luhansk, while his wife’s mother and aunt are outside of Luhansk, in an area that has been subject to intermittent bombardment for the past eight years.
Perhaps somewhat ironically, Luhansk and the areas adjacent to it are now quiet, Michael said, as they are now totally under Russian control. “The people are working, shopping centres are open, so are restaurants,” he added.
As noted, an aunt of Michal’s left the Luhansk area with her two daughters (who are approximately the same age as Michael) eight years ago when the fighting first began there, and they moved to a town west of Luhansk.
“It’s quieter there,” Michael said. “You can’t compare to the other places, but still they have sirens in the middle of the night, they’re hiding, they’re getting some humanitarian aid – they’re volunteering in those centres. Basically, right now there is no active combat going on in that part, but there’s uncertainty where everything is going. The economy is stalled; they’re not working.”
What he’s been able to do though is send money to them through Western Union – which is “deposited directly into their bank account,” Michael said.
I asked Michael whether he’s in touch with his family in Ukraine. He said that he is, through a platform called “Viber” (which, interestingly, was developed in Israel).
But I was curious to know what life was like for his relatives who are now living in areas totally under Russian control. “From what you say, life is pretty normal,” I said to Michael.
In response, he told this story about his uncle, who is still living in Luhansk: “He was going someplace, going shopping or something. He was stopped by two Russian soldiers…they were checking his passport and his papers. He took his hat off. He’s like 75. He’s like a traditional Jewish person – he looks Jewish. And they said to him, ‘Sorry father’– (a Russian expression, Michael explained) and they apologized. They said ‘You look like someone else.’ They were looking for resistance. They checked his paperwork and wished him good day, and off he went.”
“So this is fair and normal in the city of Luhansk,” Michael said.
I said I was surprised to hear what Michael just told me. I said, “So this means the Russian soldiers are behaving fairly nicely,” I suggested.
Michael agreed, adding, “The Western media. They are reporting just one side of the story. And, to be honest, I don’t know who is wrong, who is right. You know, you see all those terrible things on the TV, on Facebook, on Instagram, but on Viber – and I haven’t heard from my uncle for a week or so, he says that everything is stable, everyone is okay.”
“Isn’t that interesting?” I responded. I continued, asking Michael, “What would you say then if the Russians took over all of Ukraine, how do you think they would behave?”
Michael answered: “This is what the Western world really doesn’t understand. Ukraine is actually divided into two. The eastern part is truly Russian-speaking population. They share the same traditions, the same language – everything. Even myself, when I was in school, Ukrainian was like a foreign language. It’s like you learn French here. It’s as if Ontario and Quebec were combined together – and you called it Ukraine.
“For those areas where it’s mostly Russian-speaking people, the quality of life is not that great. They don’t really care who is in power, honestly. They just want to get to work, get paid, and feed their families. The people there are mostly farmers, miners (of coal). They don’t really have an agenda for politics. They don’t want war. They just want to lead a normal life.
“In the western part of Ukraine, it’s a different story because they’re more Polish in nature. They have stronger connections to Poland. There was always tension between Ukrainians and Russians. It’s not spoken of, but during the Holocaust the Ukrainians cooperated with the Nazis. (To which I said, “Yes, I know.”) More (Jewish) people were killed by Ukrainians than by Nazis. These days we don’t talk about that. But I don’t know who is better and who is worse (comparing Ukrainians and Russians). They both do the same.
“It’s not black and white, it’s sort of gray,” Michael suggested.
“But how do you react when you see what they (the Russians) are doing to Mariupol and to Kharkiv?” I asked Michael. “Mariupol has been destroyed.”
“Yes, absolutely,” Michael said. “How do I feel? I feel bad. How can you feel when the city is being destroyed, but the point is: Russia has its own agenda and Ukraine has its agenda. Someone is making a lot of money out of this.” (I didn’t ask him what he meant by that.)
I wanted to return to asking about Michael’s relatives who were still in Ukraine. I wondered whether any of them are trying to get out?
He explained that it’s all but impossible where his relatives are. “So,” I asked, “what can we as Winnipeg Jews do to help people like your relatives? We can help with money, I suppose,” I said.
“I guess so,” Michael said. “But he noted that the Russian army is not progressing to the centre of the country where his aunt and his cousins are living. His aunt is working part-time in a grocery store, Michael explained.
I remarked to Michael that I found his perspective totally different from Alexey’s and was rather unsure what to make of what he had told me.
Based on what he told me, I wondered whether the war could be brought to an end if Ukraine were to hand over the two eastern provinces (Luhansk and Donetsk) that are primarily Russian speaking, along with Crimea (which used to belong to Russia)?
“But,” Michael suggested, “they (the Russians) won’t stop. Sanctions mean nothing to them. What do you care about sanctions when you have nothing to begin with?”
He said that there should be “some kind of reasonable negotiations,” but when I suggested that Zelensky has been willing to engage in honest negotiations from the very beginning, yet the Russians are engaged in some kind of charade when it comes to negotiations, he said “I don’t know. I’m not a politician.”
But after listening to Michael, I felt that I had a better understanding how Jewish Ukrainians are not all on the same page when it comes to this terrible conflict. Yet, I don’t want what I’ve written in any way to come across as a defence of what Vladimir Putin has done – and I’m afraid that someone reading this could easily extract from some of Michael’s comments exactly that. Still, I wonder if perhaps, by understanding somewhat better the divisions that exist within Ukraine between Russian speaking and Ukrainian speaking Ukrainians, we might come to the realization that a compromise solution will have to take into account those divisions.
Is a compromise possible? It would seem so, but Vladimir Putin and his generals seem determined to punish Ukrainians terribly first, and for expatriate Ukrainians like Alexey and Michael, they can only watch and wait – and hope that their relatives and friends still living in Ukraine don’t become casualties.
Postscript: Several days after I interviewed Alexey and Michael, I was troubled by the message that I discerned from what Michael had said to me. He was quite sanguine about Russia’s occupation of Ukraine, I thought.
So I decided to look further into his claims that Russian-speaking Ukrainians feel quite differently about the Russian invasion than do Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainians.
According to an article in the Washington Post, “most Russian-speaking Ukrainians feel Ukrainian.” The article went on to say that “In Ukraine, the language people speak cannot be equated with ethnic identity. A larger representative study from 2013 examining the identity of Ukrainians living in various regions of the country found that the vast majority consider their ethnic identity as Ukrainian – the lone exception was in Crimea….strong Ukrainian identification can be found in predominantly Russian-speaking parts such as southern, eastern Ukraine, and even Donbas – where 70 percent or more identify as Ukrainian.”
I thought about Michael’s relative acquiescence to the Russian occupation of that part of Ukraine where he lived – until he was 10. But that was 28 years ago. Even though he says he is in touch with relatives in that area, including his grandfather and uncle, I wonder just how much Michael’s views were shaped by his experience growing up in a country that was under Soviet occupation until1991. According to what he told me, Michael would have left Ukraine for Israel in 1994. One can well imagine how much the country has changed in the past 28 years.
But to say that “But I don’t know who is better and who is worse (comparing Ukrainians and Russians),” as Michael said; “they both do the same”, would seem to be a distortion of the reality that now exists in Ukraine.
Local News
One of Canadian and American television’s greatest producers of all time: Perry Rosemond – a true North End boy, who never forgot his Winnipeg roots
Introduction by BERNIE BELLAN Perry Rosemond was a well- known television producer who grew up in the North End of Winnipeg before moving to Toronto and establishing himself as one of Canadian television’s brightest talents in the 1960s, later to go on to even greater success in the US before returning to Canada in the 1980s.
Rosemond passed away in Toronto on August 20 at the age of 89.
In August 2020, Gerry Posner interviewed Rosemond for the Jewish Radio Hour. I contacted Rochelle Zucker, the longtime producer of that show, to see whether she could send me an audio file of that interview – which she was able to do. Following is a complete transcript of the often hilarious interview Gerry did with Perry Rosemond:
Gerry Posner: Welcome to the Jewish Hour radio show. This is Gerry Posner, and I’m delighted to be back on the radio once again with a guest whom I believe you will find interesting and informative. So today I feel very fortunate to have on the show a real Winnipeg legend, a man who has made his way in the world of the arts, and that is no small achievement. He has been a big name in the field of entertainment as a writer, a director, a producer for many years. I speak of Perry Rosemond. Perry, welcome to the Jewish Hour radio show.
Rosemond: Thank you, Ger.
Posner: I imagine you might have even listened to this show when you were a youngster.
Rosemond: Well, I have to tell you that my grandmother would call us every Sunday when I was about seven years of age, and she would say, “Turn on the French station at 1 o’clock and you’ll hear a very beautiful program.” And that was Noah Whitman’s show. And here I am, a mere 73 years later, on the show. Remarkable.
Posner: Well, I’m glad you made it. Tell me something, Perry. Who were your parents?
Rosemond: My parents were Max and Mona Rosemond, two of the most beautiful-looking people on the face of the earth, and where is genetics when you need it? But we lived in my grandmother’s house. You called it your grandmother’s house, even though there was a grandfather there. But she ruled the roost. And there were 14 of us in a house that wasn’t that big. But my dad was a clothing designer. My mother was a showroom model. And my mother wore a girdle, but she was never fat. And I later learned in life that the reason she wore the girdle was so that when the buyers in the showroom pinched her, it didn’t hurt as much. Those were my parents.
Posner: Well, where was the house that you grew up in?
Rosemond: The house I grew up in was at the corner of Manitoba and Andrews in North Winnipeg.
Posner: So you spent quite a few years there.
Rosemond: Oh, yes. I spent quite a few years there, but we moved. My parents were sort of upwardly mobile, and we moved from Andrews and Manitoba to Lansdowne Avenue. That was an improvement. Oh, my goodness. I had my own room.
Posner: Were there more of you than just Perry? I mean, were there siblings?
Rosemond: No, there was just me. But I was surrounded by cousins who were as close as brothers and sisters, really. And we stayed close for our entire lives. So there was a huge, huge sense of family at 193 Andrews.
Posner: Who would these cousins be?
Rosemond: My cousin Sonny and my cousin Mickey.
Posner: Both Rosemonds?
Rosemond: No, they were on my mother’s side.
Posner: What was her (maiden) name?
Rosemond: Magid.
Posner: MAGGOT. Really? Okay.
Rosemond: And Sonny and Mickey were four years older than me and exploited me at every opportunity. My uncle Dave Rosemond used to manage the Beacon Theater in Winnipeg.
Posner: In the North End.
Rosemond: Yes. And they would go to the Beacon Theater with me and get in for free because of me and still take my 10 cents that my mother gave me for the popcorn. So their mission in life was to exploit Perry Rosemond.
Posner: And you remember it, too.
Rosemond: I do indeed. I do indeed.
Posner: So you went to school where?
Rosemond: William Whyte School.
Posner: And then did you go to (St. Johns) Tech?
Rosemond: I went to Aberdeen and then to Tech. And at William Whyte School, I would go to sleep at night and pray to wake up Ukrainian so that the daily beatings would stop. But it was 50% Ukrainian and 50% Jewish.
Posner: Yeah, you knew what it was like to be a Jew.
Rosemond: Absolutely.
Posner: Did you do any studying in Hebrew or Yiddish?
Rosemond : I did. I went to Hebrew school. And in those days, I sounded like Georgie Jessel, for God’s sakes. In those days, I can’t believe I said that. If you’re going to cut anything, cut “in those days.” Please, Ger, do me a favor. But in those days, the instructors were measured by how much pain they could inflict on the students.
Posner: And you had a bit of that.
Rosemond: A bit of that. I was once thrown against a radiator by Mar Gross, and I still bear the pains to this day.
Posner: But you weren’t a product of Cantor Brownstone’s choir.
Rosemond: No, that was Alan Blye, and he was my friend and my roommate when I moved to Toronto to become an actor.
Posner: Who were some of your buddies in Winnipeg growing up? I guess Blye was one of them.
Rosemond: Blye was very close. Bugsy Lavich was very close, very close, and probably the leading bookmaker of his generation.
Posner: He’s well-known.
Rosemond: Indeed, and remains today my closest and dearest friend. And whenever I think about Bernie, I say to myself, how advantageous is it to have a friend who is the smartest human being in the world? I mean, if I need to know anything, he knows it. He knows it.
Posner: Did you go to university in Winnipeg at all?
Rosemond: I went to the University of Manitoba, and that’s where I got the bug to go into theater because I was Troilus in “Troilus and Cressida.” I was Cassius in “Julius Caesar,” and I was hopeless in the classroom. But it just took me by storm. It really did. And I ended up going to Toronto.
Posner: Well, just hold on a second. Were you not involved in some fashion in the creation of the MTC, the Manitoba Theatre Centre, in its very early days – with John Hirsch?
Rosemond: I was a founding member of the Manitoba Theatre Centre with Gordon Pinsent and Len Cariou – who went on to win a Tony, and Donnelly Rhodes, who went on to be a terrific influence in theatre in Canada. And I was one of the founding members. And you know what was strange, Gerry, is that I thought, boy, if this guy John Hirsch is in Winnipeg, what must they be like in New York or the West End in England? And I never met his match. But boy, could he intimidate me. I was in a play, “Death of a Salesman.” I was playing Bernard, and he came up to me and he said, “Mr. Rosemond, don’t you think you ought to reconsider your interpretation of that lawyer you’re playing?” And it would have been a fair note, except it was given to me after dress rehearsal. I’ve never seen a man customize performance the way he did — everybody got exactly what they needed. He was beyond brilliant. He went to his demise as my mentor and my idol and my friend.
Posner: So he was your introduction to the world of arts.
Rosemond: Absolutely. And strangely enough, we hooked up later when — oh, many, many years later — when he was head of drama at CBC, and he brought me back from Los Angeles to create the program “King of Kensington.”
Posner: When you made that decision somewhere in the ’50s, you’re in your, I guess, 20s, and you make a decision, “I’m going to move to Toronto, and I’m going to go into the arts as a career.” Your parents must have looked at you like you were out of your head.
Rosemond: Do you know, Gerry, it was funny, because beyond the initial beating about the head and shoulders that my father laid on me, they never stopped supporting me. They stood by me, and I can’t tell you how grateful I am for that. 100% support. Let me chart my own course.
Posner: But the odds were stacked against you. Come on.
Rosemond: Oh, tell me about it. I mean, it was about 15 minutes before I realized I wasn’t a very good television actor. I remember sitting in the basement of 42 Bedford Road in Toronto with Gordon Pinsent, who was my other roommate, with Alan Blye, and we were watching a guy who stole a part from me. He was playing the part I was born to play. And I watched it for about 10 minutes, and I said, “You know what, Gordon? He’s better than I would have been.” And Gordon said, “Perry, get out of acting. You don’t have the ego for it.” And I’d been sneaking in and out of control rooms all this time, Gerry. So I got bitten by the behind the scenes. And that’s where I headed.
Posner: So you actually gave up the acting. You went into production.
Rosemond: Exactly, exactly.
Posner: Well, maybe you were fortunate that that happened early on in the career. In your career, as I gather, you’ve touched the lives of some pretty big names. Tell me if I’m wrong here. Dick Van Dyke?
Rosemond: Yes. Len Cariou, Cloris Leachman, Julie Andrews, Steve Martin, Billy Crystal, Donnie and Marie, Johnny Cash, and the list goes on.
Posner: How does this all come about?
Rosemond: Oh, Johnny Cash. That was the best time of my life. Two years in Nashville. I’ll tell you how it came about. Johnny wanted documentary elements in his variety show, and I had trained in both in Canada. So I wasn’t the best documentary filmmaker, and I wasn’t the best comedy variety producer, but the fact that I could do both got me the job directing his show. And when they introduced me to him — it was during the hippie era, so I had the long hair and the whole nine yards.
Posner You weren’t exactly a feature presenter. You didn’t present well.
Rosemond: No, I didn’t present well because Johnny said, “Where are you going to film this week?” And I said, “I’m going to Hazard, Kentucky to film coal miners.” And Johnny said, “Perry, if you go into Hazard, Kentucky on a Saturday night with that long hair and them bell-bottoms, they’re going to kill you.” So this whole Hollywood invasion of middle America was absolutely hysterical. But the show was a big hit.
Posner: Give me the career path. You came here (Toronto) in the ’50s.
Rosemond: OK, I came here in the ’50s, late ’50s, as an actor. Right. Shared a room with Gordon Pinsent and Alan Blye. Right. We were very competitive, but Alan really won because he had a role on a continuing starring role on one of the big variety shows. And if I’m not mistaken, he actually declared Gordon Pinsent and me as dependents on his 1959 tax form. So he definitely was the more successful of the group. Then I went back to Winnipeg in 1960, and I applied as a production assistant. And there were no openings, but there were producer-directors that had quit, and so they gave me a job as a producer-director.
Posner: So I get this is at CBC in Winnipeg, correct?
Rosemond So I got 4,200 bucks for the year, and I did Metro News and a talk show, and then I did a show called “Red River Jamboree,” which was fully sponsored by Kraft Foods, always in the top ten. And, Ger, I’ve been going downhill ever since.
Posner Well, I wouldn’t say that. I don’t know hardly that, based on what I’ve read about you. I’d say you’re climbing the ladder, and you’ve climbed to the top. And then, so how long were you back in Winnipeg?
Rosemond: I was back in Winnipeg until ’63. What happened was I was doing this variety show and I looked eastward and the third best variety producer at CBC in Toronto was a guy by the name of Norman Jewison. And so I thought, oh, my God, I’m never going to get to Toronto, which was Mecca, as a variety producer. So I went to my supervisor and said, “Look, I want to do children’s programming. My heart is with the children.” And so I got transferred to the children’s department in Winnipeg, took two kinescopes under my arm and headed to Toronto, and got a transfer to children’s programming in ’63. ’63 to ’68 Toronto, ’68 to ’85 Los Angeles.
Posner: But what were you doing in LA?
Rosemond: Well, I came out of the Cash show and did Bill Cosby’s show. You might not have heard of him. He hasn’t been in the news much these days. But I did Bill Cosby’s variety show, and from then, Donnie and Marie (then) a situation comedy called “Good Times.” But what happened is I had three shows going in Canada at the same time. I had “Bizarre” on CTV. I had “Tom Jones” on Global TV, and I had “King of Kensington” on CBC. So I thought, well, what am I doing in America?
Posner: So back you came to Canada?
Rosemond: Back to Canada, where I’ve been since ’85.
Posner: Now, in those years, those five years that you alluded to, that you were doing work in children’s programming, you were pretty involved, from what I gather. You did some work on “Children of the World?”
Rosemond: Yeah, that’s probably something of which I’m most proud. It was a series on children in developing nations, and it drew an audience of over 600 million people just in audio-visual distribution.
Posner: Wow. And if I had to say, what’s the number one thing you’ve accomplished? That would be it?
Rosemond: That would be it.
Posner: Really?
Rosemond: Absolutely.
Posner: I understand it won (something called the Japan Prize). I mean, I hadn’t heard of this, but I gather it’s pretty significant. The Japan Prize is (for) the best children’s program.
Rosemond: That’s correct.
Posner: So, you know, that’s saying something. That’s a long way from the North End.
Rosemond: Well, you know what we say. They say, how come there’s so many great people from the North End? And my answer is always the same. It’s a deep and abiding desire to get the heck out of the North End.
Posner: Now, I think, correct me here, in some fashion, not only did you do this program that won this prize, “Children of the World.” But you also were connected, and maybe you can tell me how, to “Mr. Dressup” and “The Friendly Giant?”
Rosemond: That’s right. I was head of children’s programming for a period of time and worked with Mr. Dressup and the Friendly Giant. Friendly Giant, I remember once being in a room with him, and I was giving him some notes, and he turned around and he walked away from me. I thought, well, that’s rude. And then I looked, and a group of schoolchildren had come into the studio. And he was deathly afraid of being seen as anything but a giant. Which he was, by the way. He was a gigantic personality.
Posner: Well, you were the executive producer of those shows, right?
Rosemond: Correct, correct, yeah.
Posner: And in some way you got connected to Sesame Street, too?
Rosemond: That’s right. I was living in Los Angeles, and they asked if I would come back and Canadianize Sesame Street.
Posner Canadianized Sesame Street? I didn’t know there was a Canadianized version.
Rosemond: Well, what we did was we took out the Native American segments and the Spanish segments, and we substituted them with Native Canadian and French. And then gradually we took over and did our own version, a Canadian version of Sesame Street. Again, very gratifying. Back to Winnipeg to do it — that was my blackmail. I said, I’ll come back and do it if I can do it in Winnipeg, because I like the graphics artists in Winnipeg, and I felt I’d get a better product.
Posner: Okay, that’d be what, sometime in the ’80s?
Rosemond: That would have been earlier. That would have been in the ’70s.
Posner: Wow. Well, you kept up your links to Winnipeg.
Rosemond: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Posner: Now, so you’ve had children’s programming. And you also got into, I gather, documentary and public affairs.
Rosemond: Right, yes. “The Way It Is.”
Posner: “The Way It Is” was the Sunday Night flagship show. That was the big show on CBC Sunday night, wasn’t it?
Rosemond: That’s right. It was the big show on CBC Sunday night, and I worked with an executive producer called Ross McLean. I didn’t last too long on that, Gerry. I remember Ross had a very constructive way of winning arguments. We had one argument. And I can’t even remember what it was about, but he won it hands down by throwing a Coke can at my head. And I took a hike, and I never came back to “The Way It Is.”
Posner: That’s the way it was.
Rosemond: That’s the way it was, right.
Posner: You also did what you call profiles for CBC’s “Telescope,” with Oscar Peterson, Arthur Haley, Gordon Pinsent, Glenn Gould, Donald Sutherland. I mean, that was another big show.
Rosemond: Yeah, and that was my entrée to the United States because I became their man in America. And thus I did Donald Sutherland in Hollywood while snooping around for work and Eddie Albert from ‘”Green Acres” and all of the expatriate Canadians who were living in Los Angeles. And that gave me a foothold because I could look for work and still pay the rent. My Canadian qualifications counted for nothing in America. You were zero. Zero. And I was starting from scratch at age 30, and I had to have some kind of income to get things going.
Posner: And then somewhere along the line you got — you oversaw the production, I’m not sure exactly, of “Hockey Night in Canada.” I’m guessing you never even played the game.
Rosemond: I was on the third line of the Chicago Blackhawks in the miniature NHL, you know, and probably the worst ever third liner in the history of Manitoba’s miniature NHL hockey. But here’s the deal with that. When I wanted to come back to Canada, I couldn’t just come back as a freelancer because when they brought me in from America, I was the big American producer that they were bringing to Canada. If I was going to be in Canada, you know the deal, the expert’s always 100 miles from home.
Posner: That’s right.
Rosemond: So I had to have a foothold. So I had worked with Don Ohlmeyer Productions, and they were consulting to Hockey Night. And they wanted to take over Hockey Night. And Don suggested that I come up from America to put them in the hockey business, which I did. And I also started other shows for this company, Molestar Communications, which were more in the entertainment business and more to my liking, like the Juno Awards, I’d escape for a month or two, or a syndicated series called “Starting From Scratch,” which I shot in Montreal. So I would leave the administrative behind and jump back into the trenches whenever I could.
Posner: You know, it’s okay you didn’t play so well in the third line in miniature. You did a little better, I would say. Now, you mentioned David Steinberg. And you produced his show, CTV’s “David Steinberg Show?”
Rosemond: Yes, that’s right.
Posner: Did you even write for that show?
Rosemond: I wrote for it.
Posner: How many scripts would you have written for?
Rosemond: We did one season only, but we had an incredible guest list. David grew up a block away from me, and we knew each other forever. And I’ve done so much with David, and I admire him so much. And David attracted a huge guest list of John Voight and Ethel Merman and Milton Berle, and he also was able to bring out John Candy for his first show and Martin Short and Dave Thomas and Joe Flaherty and all of those people.
Posner: No, I don’t think David Steinberg’s memories of Winnipeg are as warm as yours are. They are kind of, you know. I’m quite surprised to hear you say that because I think in the beginning maybe, you know, when you were a young kid you hate where you came from. Maybe there was some of that. But now he cherishes it.
Rosemond: He does. I also had a lot of clout in being able to, if I may say so, book enormous talent because we had Marty Short and Andrea Martin, and I was able to book Howie Mandel, because I gave him his first shot in America on Norm Crosby’s “Comedy Shop.” And I got to tell you this really boring story, but I’ll try to make it quick.
Posner: Okay.
Rosemond: My partner and I on Norm Crosby’s Comedy Shop could veto any act that appeared on the show. So Howie’s manager was Saul Holliff’s nephew, and Saul was Johnny Cash’s manager, who was very good to me on “The Johnny Cash Show.” So he said, could you put my act on? And I said, send a tape. So he sent the tape of Howie, you know, with the faucet on the forehead and the diaper and God knows what else. And before we were 15 seconds into it, my partner Joe Sigmund raised his hand and he said, “I veto.” I said, “Joe, it’s Saul Holliff’s nephew’s act. We’ve got to put him on. Let’s tape him. We won’t use it.” And six months later, to make a long story even a little longer, Phil Kives from Winnipeg of K-Tel came to order a DVD from us. And he said, “make sure that you put on the DVD the kid with the diaper.”
Posner: Okay. You know, I’m just barely starting and we’ve got to finish this. Tell me, Perry.
Rosemond: Yeah.
Interviewer: What’s the story? Are you into retirement mode or you’re still going at it?
Rosemond: My dream is that it’s “ready camera.” I want Ingmar Bergman to shoot this, by the way. My dream is “ready camera one” and aneurysm, and in slow motion my head starts to descend to the console and I’m dead before I even hit it.
Posner: You’re still working. Still working. And I guess you still connect to Winnipeg.
Rosemond: Absolutely. I was there several times to do specials in Winnipeg, and I still would go back today, especially with the tax credits.
Posner: Perry, it’s a joy to have you. I tell you, we barely scratched the surface, and I appreciate your taking the time to come and do this.
Rosemond: Can I tell you, and I say this in all honesty, you are one terrific interviewer.
Posner: Well, thanks very much. I enjoy doing it.
Post script (added by Bernie Bellan): Some of the things that Gerry omitted from his interview were that Rosemond also produced the terrific documentary, “When Jews Were Funny,” which was named best Canadian Feature Film at the 2013 Toronto Film Festival.
As his obituary on the Benjamin’s Parrk Memoria Chapel website also notes: “In 2003, Perry was appointed a member of the Order of Canada, a national recognition for a career that entertained, educated, and made Canadians laugh.
“But Perry never measured his life by accolades, he measured it in smiles. He lived to spread laughter and joy. It was his way of making people feel seen and valued. He will be dearly missed and forever loved.”
Local News
From a ‘pie in the sky’ idea to 2,400 young hockey players
By BERNIE BELLAN I didn’t used to cover sports for The Jewish Post & News except for the odd occasion.
For years we could count on the late, great Harvey Rosen to comb the waterfront, looking for any sports story that might have the least connection to anything Jewish. Harvey would even go into visiting teams’ locker rooms during Winnipeg Jets games and, if a player had a name that sounded Jewish, inquire whether that player might be Jewish.
Then, for a few years, we added well-known sports writer Scott Taylor to the mix. Scott offered quite a different perspective, looking for stories about athletes that went far behind the scenes to uncover details that other reporters might have missed.
With both Harvey and Scott gone from our pages, I’ve occasionally found myself filling the sports void. These days, however, I tend to wait for an interesting story to find me.
And that’s exactly what happened with Wheatland Hockey.
Recently, my neighbours Elliot and Linda Katz mentioned that they knew of a Jewish couple who had started a hockey development program in Winnipeg. The couple, Rich Hechter and Rachel Wolfenson, had apparently started Wheatland Hockey only about 16 months earlier.
I subsequently learned that, in that short time, more than 2,400 young hockey players had gone through Wheatland’s various programs.
That number got my attention.
So, I contacted Rachel and Rich to find out what they had created — and why.
It started with a gap
The idea for Wheatland began, as Rachel described it to me, as “this little pie in the sky idea that we were going to have a spring development program in the spring of 2025.”
They started with about 50 kids spread across three age groups.
Sixteen months later, Wheatland has grown into a broad hockey-development organization offering programs for players from U9 through U15, along with specialized programming, female hockey, spring and summer teams, events and high-performance opportunities.
But the numbers aren’t really the story.
The story is why they thought Wheatland needed to exist in the first place.
Rich and Rachel felt there was a gap between traditional minor hockey and the highly specialized — and often expensive — training programs available to elite players.
There were plenty of opportunities for kids to play hockey. But what about the player who needed to improve one particular part of their game? What about the U9 player whose parents had no idea what skills their child should be working on? What about the player who wasn’t an elite athlete but had the potential to become a much better hockey player with the right instruction?
That was the space they wanted Wheatland to occupy.
As Rachel explained it, some families come to Wheatland knowing exactly what their child needs.
“They might know that the kid’s gap is power skating,” she told me. “They might have a great shot and great stick handling, but they’re not strong skaters.”
Other families arrive with a much less specific question.
“They’re new U9 families,” Rachel said. “Their kids have been spat out of the Timbits world and into the U9 world and they don’t know what to focus on.”
That’s where Rich comes in.
‘Pedagogy on ice’
Rich brings an unusual background to hockey coaching.
He is currently taking a one-year sabbatical from his role as vice-principal of Brock Corydon School, the Winnipeg school often known as the only public school Hebrew bilingual program in North America. For many families in Winnipeg’s Jewish community, Brock Corydon is where they know Rich best.
Before becoming a vice-principal, he worked as a high school teacher and as a university professor in the Faculty of Education. He has also spent more than a decade coaching youth hockey.
This year, rather than stepping away from education, Rich is using his sabbatical as an opportunity to continue learning, writing, and growing as a coach and mentor while devoting more time to developing Wheatland Hockey.
That additional time will also allow Wheatland to extend its reach beyond Winnipeg through a new initiative called “Wheatland on the Road”.
Over the coming year, Rich will travel to rural Manitoba communities including Manitou, St. Laurent, Lundar, Steinbach and Elm Creek to lead coaching and mentoring sessions for local players and coaches.
The initiative reflects Wheatland’s belief that access to quality coaching should not depend on where a young player lives. It also gives Rich an opportunity to work directly with local hockey communities, sharing ideas and helping coaches develop their own approaches to teaching the game.
For Rich, education and hockey aren’t separate worlds.
Rachel described his approach as “pedagogy on ice.”
The idea is simple: coaching isn’t just about showing a young player how to execute a skill. It’s about understanding how that player learns, figuring out what they need, and creating an environment where they can improve.
That educational philosophy is evident in the way Wheatland approaches development.
Its programs focus on areas such as skating, puck control, shooting, passing and receiving, positional play, defensive skills, checking, hockey IQ and tactical understanding.
But the organization also talks openly about developing confidence, resilience and character.
The Wheatland philosophy is summed up on its website as building “skills, character and excellence — on and off the ice.”
And that distinction is important to Rich.
The objective isn’t simply to produce better hockey players.
It’s to help young people become better learners, teammates and competitors.
A Jewish leadership team in an unlikely business
There is also an irony at the heart of Wheatland’s success.
We are not exactly the people known for our sporting prowess, and none of the people leading Wheatland played in the NHL. Yet, the organization is run by Rachel and Rich, with Ryan Paul, Eleni Wener, Avi Walker and Dustin Roitelman in senior leadership roles.
That may be unusual in the hockey world, but it is also part of what makes Wheatland distinctive.
This is not a business built around former professional players leveraging on their own playing careers. It is being led by people who believe deeply in the values Wheatland has developed — and continues to develop.
They believe in teaching young people how to learn, how to work with others, how to persevere and how to contribute to their communities.
In that sense, Wheatland’s leadership team reflects the organization’s broader philosophy: hockey expertise matters, but so do education, mentorship, organization, empathy and a commitment to making the game more accessible.
The fact that this group has helped build a hockey organization serving thousands of young players from across Manitoba is, in its own way, pretty remarkable.
Making hockey and coaching accessible
Perhaps the most important word in Wheatland’s philosophy is accessibility.
“Accessibility is one of our guiding principles,” Rachel said. “We believe that all kids should have the opportunity to get on the ice, regardless of socioeconomic conditions.”
For Rich and Rachel, accessibility means more than making hockey available. They believe that good coaching should be accessible, too.
That commitment is reflected in Wheatland’s “Pay-What-You-Can” program, which helps ensure that financial circumstances do not prevent children and families from participating in quality hockey programming.
For Rachel and Rich, the program is one way of giving back to the broader community. They believe that hockey — and the opportunity to learn from good coaches — should be available to as many young people as possible, not limited only to families who can afford the full cost of specialized training.
That doesn’t mean Wheatland is trying to be everything to everyone.
Rather, the idea is that a family shouldn’t need to have an elite-level hockey player — or an elite-level hockey budget — to access good coaching.
The organization keeps its groups relatively small. A typical session might have four or five players, while a larger session could have as many as 20, with several coaches on the ice.
The result is that a player who shows up to a smaller session can end up receiving something approaching a semi-private lesson without the family having to pay a premium for that experience.
And, Rachel noted, if only a handful of players show up for a session, “they would get the benefit of a semi-private class for a very inexpensive cost.”
Building coaches, too
Wheatland’s emphasis on development doesn’t stop with the players.
The organization has also created a Junior Coach program, through which some of its younger participants have an opportunity to begin learning how to teach the game themselves.
Five of Wheatland’s junior coaches are under the age of 15.
That’s significant because it reflects another part of Rich and Rachel’s philosophy: hockey development isn’t simply about producing better players. It’s about creating people who can contribute to the hockey community.
The organization’s coaching staff also includes experienced coaches with backgrounds in player development, athletic development and hockey education.
The same philosophy is at the heart of Wheatland on the Road. By working with coaches in rural communities, Rich hopes to help build local coaching capacity so that players can continue benefiting from quality instruction long after his visit is over.
Hockey as a bridge between communities
One of Wheatland’s most memorable recent initiatives involved a visiting Israeli hockey club.
The visiting players took part in two on-ice sessions with Rich and Ryan. After changing out of their gear, the young players then visited Rich at Brock Corydon School, where they met with grade 5 and 6 students.
For the players from Israel, the experience offered more than additional hockey instruction. It gave them an opportunity to connect with Winnipeg students through a shared language — the language of hockey — while also learning about one another’s communities.
For Wheatland, the sessions demonstrated how hockey can create meaningful connections that extend well beyond the rink.
Rachel and Rich
While Rich is the face of Wheatland on the ice, Rachel’s role is largely behind the scenes.
A Senior Investment Advisor with TD Private Wealth Management, Rachel brings an entirely different skill set to the organization, overseeing operations and communications and helping ensure that families have a positive experience from the moment they register.
The division of responsibilities seems to work. Rachel brings the organizational perspective needed to turn an idea into an operation. Rich brings the educator’s perspective to player development.
The broader leadership team brings additional experience, energy and commitment to the values that guide Wheatland.
And somewhere along the way, that little “pie in the sky” idea became something considerably larger.
More than 2,400 kids have now gone through Wheatland’s programs in just 16 months.
That’s a lot of hockey players. But when I asked Rachel what she thought accounted for that kind of growth, her answer wasn’t really about hockey.
It was about giving families something they were looking for.
“We teach people first, we teach hockey second,” is the philosophy Rich and Rachel have adopted.
Perhaps that’s why Wheatland has grown so quickly.
Because for all the talk about hockey development, what they are really trying to develop is something bigger: young people who feel supported, challenged and capable of getting better.
And through initiatives such as the Pay-What-You-Can program, Wheatland on the Road and its work with visiting teams, Wheatland is also showing how hockey can be both accessible and a bridge between communities.
If the first 16 months are any indication, there are a lot of Winnipeg families — and perhaps many potential community partners across Manitoba — who were looking for exactly that.
For more information about Wheatland Hockey, visit Wheatland Hockey.
Local News
“Fiddler on the Roof”: First ever joint production between Winnipeg Jewish Theatre and Rainbow Stage is a smash hit
By BERNIE BELLAN You really can’t go wrong by mounting a production of “Fiddler on the Roof” – and Rainbow Stage has proven that four previous times: in 1971, 1977, 1984, and 1993.
What each of those productions had in common though – aside from the fact that they were solely Rainbow Stage productions, was that each time the star role of Tevye the milkman was played by Cliff Gardner who, in his day job, was the program director at CJOB radio.
I can’t remember how many times I saw Fiddler at Rainbow State previously but, after a while it wasn’t quite the novel experience it was the first time I had seen it there.
But now – as a result of a very creative idea, “Fiddler on the Roof” has been brought back to Rainbow Stage once more – but this time as a co-production with the Winnipeg Jewish Theatre.
The idea for mounting a joint production came from WJT’s artistic director, Dan Petrenko who, as Myron Love noted in an article for The Jewish Post this past February, had observed that “ Because of the times we’re living through, and particularly the growing antisemitism in our communities and across the country, I felt there is a need to tell a story that celebrates Jewish culture on the largest stage in the city – to reach as many people as possible.’ ”
Myron’s article went on to say that “Last year, WJT approached Rainbow Stage with a proposal for the co-presentation of “Fiddler on the Roof.” Rainbow Stage management was really enthusiastic in their response, Petrenko said.”
In my own profile of Dan Petrenko, which I wrote in April 2023, when he first came to Winnipeg, just after having been hired as the WJT’s new artistic director, I noted that “Dan was born in Israel, the son of Jewish parents who had moved from their hometown of Odessa in Ukraine.
“A formative influence in his life, he says, was his grandmother, who had been a pianist in Ukraine. She had aspirations early in her life to study in a music conservatory, but the antisemitism that was pervasive in the Soviet Union prevented her from achieving that ambition. Instead, she had to travel all the way to Siberia in order to obtain training to become a pianist.”
After re-reading my own article about Petrenko in preparation for writing about the new production of “Fiddler on the Roof,” now on at Rainbow Stage until Sept. 13, I couldn’t help but note the parallels in Petrenko’s own life and the story that is at the heart of “Fiddler,” which is one of Jews having to cope with antisemitism in their native Ukraine and finally being forced to leave their home community of Anitevka – for parts unknown.
While “Fiddler” has so many dimensions – from its story of persecution, of girls being kept from studying because of age old taboos, of marriages being arranged, to notions of democracy – and socialism, starting to be espoused in the late 1800s in Eastern Europe – it’s the music that really drives the show.
I don’t have to remind anyone how timeless the songs from “Fiddler” have become. There have been documentaries produced, both about how the Broadway show came about and later, how Norman Jewison crafted a quite different approach to telling the story of Tevye the milkman in his brilliant movie adaptation of the Broadway musical. There have also been several books telling the story how three geniuses: Sheldon Harnick, Joseph Stein, and Jerry Bock, combined to create something that is as timeless in its own way as any musical could ever be.
But, what can you say about the WJT-Rainbow Stage co-production of “Fiddler'” that couldn’t possibly avoid using superlatives? Playing to a sold-out audience on opening night, Wednesday, September 9, even though there was a slight chill in the air as the evening wore on – and certainly mounting a show at Rainbow Stage in September is a chancy proposition – the evening was one of pure magic.
I don’t know who came up with the idea of having the orchestra play behind the performers – as opposed to the usual practice of having them play in the pit in front of the stage – but it was sheer genius to do that. I’ve often attended Rainbow Stage and been frustrated that the singers’ voices are drowned out by the musicians’ instruments – but not this night.
Each note sung could be heard clear as a bell – even from the children who played Tevye and Golde’s youngest daughters.
The performances were universally excellent – all the way from Daniel Kash as Tevye and Debbie Maslowsky (a name very familiar both to WJT and Rainbow Stage attendees) to everyone else in the cast. It would be unfair to single out anyone in the cast for special praise; they were all so good, but if there was one moment that was absolutely thrilling above all else, it was when the opening note to the Russian song “Za vashe zdorovye” (to your health) in the famous tavern scene that culminates with “To Life” was belted out.
And, having the Rusalka Ukrainian dancers perform only added to the evening’s excitement. The exuberance they brought to the wedding scene was a demonstration of how combining the talents of one of Winnipeg’s most exciting dance troupes with many Winnipeg performers who had previously appeared either in WJT or Rainbow Stage productions was a demonstration of just how much talent there is right here in Winnipeg.
Sadly, by the time this is published this version of “Fiddler on the Roof” is only scheduled to be performed two more times: Saturday, Sept. 12, at 7:30 pm and Sunday, Sept. 13, at 2:00 pm. Tickets had been going fast as of the time of publication, but if you want to check with the box office, the number is 204-989-0888
